With his defeat of Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett and the union leaders who rallied for months against Walker’s agenda, the rising GOP star became the first governor in U.S. history to survive a recall attempt. – Walker survives recall election in Wisconsin [AP]
KARL ROVE AND COMPANY put Wisconsin up for sale and Democrats didn’t make a serious bid. You can’t get outspent 10 to 1 and expect to survive. If they don’t take this on the road they’re nuts.
Pres. Obama was never going to show up in Wisconsin, because that’s not who he is, but the aversion Democrats have in the Obama era to pull out all the stops and take it to the right is why our entire political discussion has gone so far rightward that before getting their asses handed to them Democrats were saying things like “Wisconsin gives progressives something to build on.” For Christ’s sake, people, that’s the headline on Katrina vanden Heuvel’s Washington Post column on Tuesday! If that’s what The Nation‘s editor and publisher is telling progressives, Democrats are in more trouble than anyone guessed and that’s saying something coming from me.
If you think that’s clueless read the AFLCIO’s Twitter feed. Two examples:
Win or lose, Scott Walker has joined ignominious company in suffering the humiliation of a recall election. 3rd ever.
We wanted a different outcome, but WI forced the governor to answer for his efforts to divide the state and punish hard-working people
Oh, sweet Jesus on a biscuit, Scott Walker WON and so did other Republicans, with one seat possibly throwing the state senate to Democrats.
Michael Moore tweeted this: Lose a battle here & there, but trust me we’ll win the war. History proves one thing: The good guys sooner or later win. Hate cannot sustain.
Yeah it can, if it’s got unlimited resources and an opponent who won’t suit up.
Meanwhile, the Republican machine smartly, expertly and without looking back amassed millions of dollars in Wisconsin to continue systematically destroying an important engine of progressivism through an entirely legal process that Democrats and progressives disdain so thoroughly they’d rather lose than play the game that gets it done.
Congratulations, Karl, Chuck and Dave, et al. You put the state of Wisconsin up for auction, with a front man who had exactly what it took to make the case: firm convictions, regardless of the fact that he’s wrong and his policies will harm the middle class, a plan to execute, and the unwavering support of his base who had his back because he has theirs and is not pulling any punches in implementing what they say they want done.
Democrats ought to try it.
Many Democrats and progressives analyzing what happened inevitably get down to saying no one should worry, because Pres. Obama remains safe for November.
To quote part of a Howard Kurtz tweet, which you’ll hear parroted exhaustively today by the usual suspects, “…Obama’s decision not to go there (and own the loss) was politically smart.”
Because after all, that’s all that matters.
OFA-Wisconsin statement on tonight’s Governor’s race
“While tonight’s outcome was not what we had hoped for – no one can dispute the strong message sent to Governor Walker. Hundreds of thousands of Wisconsinites from all walks of life took a stand against the politics of division and against the flood of secret and corporate money spent on behalf of Scott Walker, which amounted to a massive spending gap of more than $31 million to $4 million. It is a testament to all of those individuals who talked to their friends, neighbors, and colleagues about the stakes in this election of how close this contest was. The power of Wisconsin’s progressive, grassroots tradition was clearly on display throughout the run up to this election and we will continue to work together to ensure a brighter future for Wisconsin’s middle class. This vision was shared by the voters tonight, as exit polling showed President Obama beating Mitt Romney 52-43, a 9-point difference. On the questions of who would do a better job on the economy and who would help the middle class the most, President Obama again held a strong advantage over Romney. These data points clearly demonstrate a very steep pathway for Mitt Romney to recover in the state.”
—- Tripp Wellde, State Director, OFA-Wisconsin
Translation: Rah! Rah! That twelve dimensional chess is always a winner. For Barack Obama, which is all anyone seems to think about.
A squishy Democrat who is basically the same as a Republican and sounds weaker isn’t going to cut it.
A squishy Democrat who feels the same about unions as Republicans do won’t either, especially when the Republican won’t mince words and the Democrat is scared to do the same for fear of scaring off independents; never mind that he loses some of his base. Barrett lost 38% of union households to Walker, because Barrett wasn’t their guy and proved it by taking collective bargaining off the table and out of the race. Oh, and the recall was stupid, because Barrett couldn’t frame it in a way to make it matter, and for him it was obviously a rematch of 2010, which didn’t convince anyone uncertain that it was actually worth it.
Voters won’t vote Democrats in when the policies they champion aren’t making their lives better, more secure, and they have to pay more taxes for the privilege.
I’ve got more respect for the Karl, Chuck and Dave contingent than I do for all of the elite Democratic politicians and strategists combined. Karl’s men knew what they had to do, what it would take and what it would cost, then they did it, took it, and forked over a little more for good measure.
Wisconsin was lost before it began.
For me, the bottom line here is that the Democratic Party would rather have lost this election than have to deal with an assertive labor. Labor and progressives, in turn, are not going to demand that they do things any differently.
The Democrats didn’t fight, because the people who give them their power didn’t demand that they do so. They will meekly do whatever is asked of them this November, and they will protest that they aren’t getting what they want, and they will never see that those two things are intimately related.
Well, at least the President tried; Clinton, that is.
Ha!
Democrats: How do you get out of this chickenshit outfit? What do you call a General (bo) who refuses to step on the battlefield (WI) where his troops ( Democrats) are fighting?
“I won’t stop fighting until the last dog is dead.” William Jefferson Clinton
The last of the strong Dems.
The repugs/bagger mob outspent the Dems 10-1….and WON! May the citizens of Wis enjoy what they were stupid enough to buy.
The repugs/bagger mob outspent the Dems 10-1….and WON
…because, as Taylor has correctly pointed out a few times now, Obama and the rest of the Democratic Party leadership refused to spend a dime on the recall effort.
The Republican Governors’ Associaton alone outspent all of Barrett’s supporters.
secularh – This is a total misread.
Wisconsin voters got exactly what they wanted, with Scott Walker passionate about delivering it.
Tom Barrett wasn’t passionate about Democratic principles.
Republicans believe that it’s every person for him or herself, & they want smaller gov & lower taxes. If someone doesn’t have the money to make ends meet, even with 2 incomes, that’s *their* problem. Survival of the fittest. That’s their model.
For 12 years back during the Reagan era, people had to keep trying it. Clinton came along & his corporatist economic philosophy fit perfectly with the post cold war time boom. The thing about Clinton, though he is a Wall Street man, is that when he was at his best back in the ’90s he wouldn’t give the right any quarter. If he had he’d never have made it through impeachment.
Clinton also had the unmitigated gall & political fortitude to push the biggest tax increase ever through & made Democrats lay down to do it. Chelsea’s own mother in law lost her seat by casting the deciding vote. That tax increase was the economic catapult that made Clinton.
Clinton also made Obama possible, friends & colleagues refer to them both as neoliberals, with the President having immense rhetorical gifts, but he has absolutely none of the spitfire and damnation against the right of Clinton, because as he said as a presidential candidate, all those fights of the 60s and the 90s are just so over FOR HIM.
Republicans didn’t get the memo. Never will. Not ever, especially with the Roberts court setting them free.
Obama said if they bring a knife he’ll bring a gun. Unfortunately, too many people didn’t understand & pay attention to those of us warning that he was only referring to when HIS political ass was on the line.
How is it a miss read? The repug.baggers spent a Tsunami of money. The Wis. voters, or at least 56% of them were dumb enough to buy the line of bilge they were selling and voted for walker.
Where is the miss read?
Hope they are happy with him….at least unti his indictment.
Well, really, only the Democrats that voted for Mr. Walker instead of Mr. Barrett were stupid. The Republicans were going to vote for Mr. Walker regardless. So, by your logic, there are some awfully stupid Democrats up there in WI.
And yes, his indictment is only 24 Business Hours away…..
2012 – Do you or someone in your household belong to a labor union? Yes. 38% voted for Walker.
2010 Anyone in household belong to a labor union? Yes. 37% voted for Walker.
Seems there is a problem within the unions.
Gays and Women vote Republican, too.
So do quite a few poor people, and middle class people who send their kids to public schools, use the public highways, worry about retirement and want to plan their family size without interference from anyone else.
People vote against their self-interest all the time, especially when the other option isn’t all that clear. As the Republicans and Democrats become less and less distinct in their positions, I become less and less hostile toward people who stay home or vote Republican even though, thirty or forty years ago, that would have been cutting off their nose to spite their face.
One side fought. The other side didn’t. The side that fought, won. The side that didn’t, lost- and is now playing the “oh boo hoo we got outspent btw did you hear the President raised another $10 mil for himself the other day? Yay Obama!”
No wonder people tune out the Stupid.
Yes. Unions have a PR problem. We need to explain to people what we do, now we are good for everyone, and convince more people to organize.
I couldn’t agree with you more Taylor. Democrats were on the downhill before BO and proved it when they manupulated the nominating process in his favor and he has taken them the rest of the way down. It just gags me to hear Pelosi talking up a Hillary run in 2016.
The quote of the night came from Paul Begula “…union members voting for Walker is like the chickens voting for Col. Sanders.”
I feel like the young weeping union member who declared that democracy is dead.
The polls had it right, they predicted a Walker win by about 7% and that’s exactly what happened. The polls also predicted the outcome of the November election, exit polls gave Obama a double digit win over Romney 53% to 42% despite Walker beating back the recall. This election was not about repealing collective bargaining rights of union workers, it was about repealing collective bargaining rights of PUBLIC sector union workers. 38% of union households voted for Walker. A significant minority of private sector union members do not believe that public sector union members represent the ideals of private sector union members.
There was also a great deal of resentment when the recall effort was taken over by national labor unions including the largest public sector labor union, the SEIU, and by the professional Progressive chattering class (Ed Schultz, Rachel Maddow, Katrina Vandel Heuval, Michael Moore).
When will the professional Progressive chattering class learn that they represent a very small minority even within the Democratic Party and the only power thay have is their remarkeable abillity to lose winnable statewide and national elections.
Extreme Progressives seldom win statewide elections the few exeptions being Bernie Sanders, Barbara Boxer and Russ Feingold (who did lose his senate re-election bid).Progressives never win national elections (see Adlai Stevenson, twice, George McGovern and John Kerry).
The extreme Progressives have to decide whether they are willing to accept compromise and incremental changes that advance the Progressive agenda or would rather turn the keys of government over to Republican ruin and the dismantling of incremental changes of the Progressive agenda
We “extreme Progressives” also have to decide whether a guy who turned his back on unions- including teachers- in Wisconsin so he could hoard his money for himself deserves our vote.
I’ve decided already. So have you. So who are you talking to?
Personally, I’ve had enough of your chastizing. I can make my own decisions, and I don’t know what planet you are from, but here on Earth the best way to convince people is not to scream at them to do what you want or be called “extreme.” I stopped caring what you think about my political leanings a long, long time ago.
The polls had it right, they predicted a Walker win by about 7% and that’s exactly what happened. The polls also predicted the outcome of the November election, exit polls gave Obama a double digit win over Romney 53% to 42% despite Walker beating back the recall.
Since you clearly do absolutely nothing with your life but stare at polls and then report back here, I’m inclined to take you at your word. And naturally you have to chastize us once again for not being good little Get Along Go Along Corporatist Obama Cheerleaders like yourself — “Progressive Chattering Class?” Who did you get that from, Joe McCarthy or Spiro Agnew?
When are you going to accept that some of us are in this for principle, not party? And that we are bored to death with your Shut Up And Obey attitude?
When are you going to let up on this crap? The left wing of the party was the ones that were so enamored with Obama back in ’08. He was the ultimate Latte Liberal darling. Now that he has problems and rolled them under the bus you are BLAMING the exact same people who thought he was so great. Why don’t you just call them a bunch of dupes who Obama pulled the wool over their eyes?
John Kerry an “extreme progressive……?”
That’s *really* funny.
Well, he is extremely rich. And sort of extremely tall…
All this shows me is one thing that’s proven time and time again:
C.R.E.A.M. or “Cash Rules Everything Around Me” (h/t Wu-Tang Clan).
The fact that obscene amounts of hard dollars were needed for a Walker win (and a Barrett win) is the issue for a dude with no irons in any Donkey or Elephant fire. I guess if I win the big game, I can buy my way into the South Carolina governorship. Sheesh….
Wisconsin will survive (with great tension). Obama gonna get slapped with this. Romney gonna gloat. And we will be back to the Harvard Boys Election 2012….
Ok… I was a bit bleak in my previous comment (was I?). LOL. About Wisconsin:
Barrett wasn’t the pure “union guy”. He was more the “I’m not Gov. Walker” guy that uh, already lost to Walker once. It would seem to me that Wisconsin Democrats messed up by not finding a strident union guy/gal to go against Walker. A union “pitbull cage fighter” (as my uncle says). Someone with some intense passion to out-passion Walker. My family in Madison don’t know who that person would have been.
Back in my loud Black Nationalist days, our little group seemed so much larger since we screamed, yelled, and rhetorically menaced the loudest. We were off-base but damn, we sure were a passionate bunch. Barrett and Wisconsin Dems lost to “The Passion of the Elephant”.
@LakeLady – Democracy isn’t dead. It’s just the Roberts court made it a lot easier to be bought, or in the case of Pres Obama, compromised, capitulated and carried away by the 1%, with help from Democrats & progressives who don’t have one-quarter of the purpose as the Tea Party. At least they hold their own accountable & when they betray fundamental (wacky) conservative “values” the politician is challenged. If they don’t win they keep trying. The astro-turfing & money then does the rest.
Club for Growth, Grower Norquist… the Tea Party… Republicans now have self-correcting conservative tools.
Obama’s enablers, those inside the Dem Party, as well as the fans whom you upset, because they wouldn’t work so hard to insult you if what you were saying didn’t hit a nerve, just keep going along, pushing everything further right, with no consequences.
Obama is fortunate he’s up against Mitt Romney instead of a charismatic politician on the right. He’d get clocked if he was.
Look what conservatives put Mitt Romney through this year. While everyone made fun of the base, which is crazy right wingers, but they make the man know they’re there.
Pres. Obama got a pass from progressives & Dems.
Unless there is a price to pay for selling out principles it will never, ever end.
Movement progressives & Democrats are despondent today and I don’t blame them. Everything you’ll read is a widespread attempt to keep from telling you the truth. I don’t know one person inside the movement who can honestly say what happened last night is the end of it.
Well, if it is not dead you have to admit it is on life-support. I for sure hear what you are saying about holding Dems accountable.My vote won’t matter because MO, will vote for Romney but I just can’t vote for BO.
Sigh. Well at least the WI state senate now has the ability to be a check on Walker–that is, if they have the will to use it.
Obama being Obama. No surprises, no expectation he’ll change.
Leave it to a die hard independent to say it without frills or emotions, agenda or surprise.
Once again the left, progressives and Democrats did what they always do, they caved. Democrats and liberals have always acted like the little kids, who when they don’t get everything they want start fighting among themselves and don’t vote or vote for the other guy out of spite.
They ran a guy who unions didn’t like, liberals and the left didn’t like because he wasn’t pure enough, but instead of doing what the right does the left splintered into their little camps, which is what we always do and caved.
It looks like we will do the same thing come November that we always do. Since the left doesn’t like Obama because he’s not liberal enough, we will splinter into our little groups and unlike republicans who don’t like Romney but will band together and vote in lock step so they can win the prize, and then work out their differences. Democrats and the left will bitch at each other, point fingers and be what the left and democrats have been for years…Little children playing politics in the adult world and losing.
It’s *not* because he’s not liberal enough, angels81. I know that makes you and others feel comfortable to posit it, but it’s just silly. Democrats haven’t been “liberal” in over 2 decades.
It’s because Obama won’t put skin in the game & be willing to lose one while backing his own, then find a way to spin the loss that reveals he’s just fine fighting and losing, but he won’t stand by and not show up when the fight is worth the effort.
People would be a lot less despondent today if Obama would have stood on the line in Wisconsin, by helping with cash however he could, then railed against the cascade of cash in Wisconsin today that helped lose the race and forced him to have to sanction his own Super PACS and change his entire strategy on money in politics in order to survive. Mind you, it’s also about Barrett & backing away from Democratic principles, but that’s not Obama’s thing, though cash in elections actually has always bothered him.
Lack of Super PAC money, remember, is a plan Barack Obama put into action because he didn’t like that type of corruption. When he unleashed his dictate, however, he’d already neutered that tool so effectively that his own former guy, Bill Burton, along with Paul Begala, can’t raise the cash to compete. Katzenberg called their group a “fucking failure.”
Obama still has a far better chance of winning in November than Romney. That seems to interest you and others more than anything, so take heart!
thank you, Rahm.
Great analysis Taylor. I also appreciate the thoughtful comments by Cujo and Lake Lady in the other thread. To keep things simple for myself in answering why the people of Wisconsin voted against their own self interest, it boils down the 3 things:
1. There are problems with Unions. They need to clean up their own act. Some of the criticism is well-deserved, some not. But they need to fix what is wrong.
2. People who work for the private sector have seen their salaries, benefits and retirement disappear and they resent the notion that public workers should be getting what they don’t have, especially if it is the other guys’ tax dollars that are footing the bill. The corporate-driven right has done a wonderful job of divide and conquer. I bet if everybody wasn’t feeling the pain of the private cuts that they would care to strip public workers of their benefits, but rightly or wrongly, they perceive public workers as the problem, not the corporations who are enjoying record profits while screwing their employees.
3. MIA “tweet” support from the President and the Democratic Party.
If the Democrats get their heads handed to them in November, it is their own fault for being the party of hand-wringing-wimps with ZERO core values that they are willing to fight for.
Strongly second both observations!
Well I think by your response to me, you made my point. We on the left continue to eat our own.
First of all, respectfully, I take issue with the idea the the current blob that calls itself the “Democratic” Party is my own. It has been ignoring my voice for years now.
Lastly, what is left of it, is not very appetizing so I will not be partaking in the eating of it. It is doing a fine job of decaying on its own, thank you very much.
I couldn’t have say it better. I also love your wit.
Good use of the metaphors.
A Democrat who didn’t represent a real alternative was handed the same defeat he was handed two years ago. I think the Democratic Party was perfectly OK losing this election, as long as it didn’t interrupt their gravy train.
Decaying gravy. Yumm…
Taylor, you say the democratic party hasn’t been liberal in decades, which I agree with, but I’ll ask the question anyways…By whose standards haven’t they been liberal enough? It seems everybody has their own idea as to what liberal is. Is the democratic party liberal compared to the republican party? The other question I have is…If the democratic party is not liberal enough, why is that, and who’s to blame?
If one of the reasons is that the left wing in this country walked away from the democratic party, then were is the viable left wing third party? It goes back to my earlier post, that the left in this country are like little kids playing at politics.
Since when is repeating the same action with no different result (voting democrat as they lurch ever rightward)…”adult.” Maybe crazy adult.
Oh come on Angles, the GOP has devored the moderate wing in primaries and now whatever moderation exists in the Party is buried deep. They are running a moderate who will follow their right wing march right off the cliff. so he might as well be a wing nut himself.
Point to Lake Lady…
Whats your point? I was asking questions not about the GOP, but the democratic party. If you had read my earlier posts I made the same point about Romney and the GOP voting in lock step,so I guess I don’t understand your response.
I think Obama is in way more trouble than he (and apparently lots of other people) think he is. They keep citing the exit polls — which I’ve been with various spreads of 7, 9 and 11 or 12 points and have no idea which is actually correct, though 7 seems to be the latest). I know someone early in the comments said the exit polls showed Walker with a 7-point lead and that’s essentially what he won by. Most exist polls I saw last night said it was too close to call and dead even, or maybe a 1-point lead for Walker.
So … take away the 6 points the exit poll for Walker-Barrett was wrong by, apply it to Obama, and you’re at a 1-point lead for him. That’s pretty close.
Bottom line: Not sure exit polls are particularly accurate. Obama will now have to pour money and resources into Wisconsin, because this race has left Romney some great organization in place. (I read earlier today that the Walker offices will be converted, perhaps as soon as this week, into Romney offices.)
Obama leads Romney in all the Wisconsin polls:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/wi/wisconsin_romney_vs_obama-1871.html
He now leads Romney in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Ohio with double digit leads:
https://edisk.fandm.edu/FLI/keystone/pdf/keyjun12_1.pdf
The auto industry states are where Obama has strength thanks to his saving GM and Chrysler.
The Progressives aren’t no longer needed , they can go vote their conscious for Michael Moore, Ralph Nader or Dennis Kucenic
We all make grammar and spelling mistakes on occasion especially when commenting in a blog.
So, I never do this unless in private with someone.
But, in your case, I’ll make an exception.
The only thing left for anyone to respond to in your zombified, inaccurate and continually insulting comments is to correct your grammar.
Not according to what you wrote here, bud.
And, spelling: its conscience, not conscious.
Used in a sentence:
Not everyone votes their conscience.
I strongly hope you are conscious when you vote. Although in your case, it won’t make a difference.
And turning to the national weather, it appears the rain clouds visited out west yesterday as well……Norman Solomon in CA, Eric Griego in NM, Franke Wilmer in MT
While on the subject of money, “President Pretty Woman” (high class call girl) sweeps into San Francisco today for a 4 hour, $2 Million quickie. This evening he pimps the LGBT community in LA for $1.5 Million at a star studded gala.
Very well said Taylor. This is all so sad, but not at all surprising. The “left” is retarded. Completely useless in my opinion. They will forever be outplayed until they get their act together and that, is not going to happen anytime soon.
I have read all the comments and hear are my thoughts. Taylor I agree with you, the Democratic party has not been liberal for a very long time. The term “liberal” has been demonized so thoroughly that they had to come up with a new label i.e. progressive. Barrett lost because he like so many democrats want to run as Republican lite, well guess what you’re gonna lose. The man lost 37% of the Union households, that speaks volumes in and of itself. It’s funny but I bet if you were to poll a majority of the middle class voters 50 and above in the nation a large majority has a connection to Unions from way back. It comes down to “i got mine, get yours”. Many of these same voters benefitted from the work of Unions and now despise them. These are the same people who have put their kids through what used to be a pretty good public education system, that is now in shambles and getting worse by the day. At some point and believe me I hate to say this but liberals/progressives are going to have to be willing to take some losses and hold democratic pols accountable by not going along to get along. Trust me as a Black American I know. Nothing over the last few decades has really helped my community. But not much has been done for women either and hispanics, and the LGBT community are not going to get much either. We get a few scraps and a pat on the head with a nod and a wink “see how much we have done for you”. No matter the scandal the Republicans stand by their own until the very end. We throw our people under the bus even before all the facts are gathered. We have a very weak and scared party that is not that different from the republicans and this is why the dems are looking weaker and weaker. People will fight if they have a leader that will get in there and fight hard and get back up and continue fighting. We don’t have true fighters anymore. Say what you want about the Tea Party but they don’t back down. To drive it home many like myself, we are just plain tired. I will vote in November, but how many won’t. The motivation is just not there and we are tired of speeches. Yeah I know Romney will be worse, but will it really matter when the difference between the two parties is Right wing madness or republican lite. Its funny but Gil Scott-Heron talked about much of this in the 70′s. Not much has changed. Well gotta go. I will try to contribute more often over the next few months, things are just really busy these days. You know “Life happens”
The tea party has shown us the blue print on how to get what we all say we want. After the 2008 election the tea party had one goal and that was take over the republican party. They didn’t do what a lot of people on the left thought and hoped they would do and that was try and start a third party, instead they stuck to one goal and that was elect their own. The left has never learned that lesson and continues to ignore the democratic party, and continues to flirt with the idea of a third party. Unless there is a revolution in this country there will never be a viable third party in this country, and as long as we on the left keep flirting with that idea, the right wing in this country will continue to rule.
We on the left need to learn the lesson of the tea party and work, vote and fight for control of the democratic party, otherwise we will continue to see this country creep closer and closer to fascism.
This is what I was talking about in my response to you above. Maybe I misunderstood your meaning but I thought you were complaining about the Dems eating their own.
I am more than willing to join the fight but in my increasingly red state no true liberal is coming forth to challenge the establishment the only way to punish an incumbant is to vote third party..
Here in Minnesota for a house seat the DFL has run a candidate twice for that seat. The left and progressives have run a third party candidate both times and split the progressive liberal vote. Know what we’ve got for that? We’ve got Bachmann twice. So, just how smart do we liberal progressives look?
Apparently, you can’t read a blueprint, so here’s the information you’re missing:
The TEA Party set itself up as an adversary to the Republican Party. It ran candidates in primaries. It criticized and refused to support Republican candidates it didn’t like. In the end, it got whatever it got through taking its support elsewhere.
Progressives, generally, don’t do that. They do what you do, which is to cave. Just accept whatever crap “your” politicians want to feed you, and tell the rest of us as loudly and often as you can that we should like it, too.
Precisely right.
Exactly.
You say taking its support elsewhere. Exactly where elsewhere did they take it? What they did was take it right to the republican party. Not one of the tea party candidates in 2010 ran as independents, they all ran as republicans, hell, even the darling of independents Ron Paul is a republican.
Where do you get this bullshit that I advocate caving and accepting what the party offers? Did you even read what I posted? What I want is for liberals, the left and progressives to work and run candidates who will change the party to be a truly liberal party, and that means getting rid of the phony’s that now call themselves democrats. You can fool yourself about third party answers, and maybe that makes you feel good, but it will never happen in this country in my or your life time.
From here:
If one of the reasons is that the left wing in this country walked away from the democratic party, then were is the viable left wing third party?
In other words, cave.
As for your question, several people here have answered it already. Take support elsewhere, to other parties, or other ways of influencing outcomes. Whether it’s the Greens, the Socialists, or Libertarians, pick a philosophy that is close to what you want. Vote that way, and give whatever support you think you can. And when the Democrats come with hat in hand, tell them that’s what you’re doing, and why.
When you aren’t willing to go anywhere else, you have nowhere else to go.
Gah!
that third paragraph of “mine” is actually a second quote. Change to read:
and here:
You can fool yourself about third party answers, and maybe that makes you feel good, but it will never happen in this country in my or your life time.
And where is your evidence that this “taking of the Democratic party by liberals” is going to happen in my or your lifetime? On the contrary, evidence of the past three decades shows the “conservative” wing to be in ascendance.
I’ll take the visible over your crystal ball conjectures any day.
Yes, I’m still waiting for someone to explain where all those billions of dollars are going to come from for primary challenges, etc., that will change the political philosophy of the people who run as Democrats. The lesson of Bill Halter, Ned Lamont, and just about every other progressive who has tried to do that lately has been that when they do, the national Democratic Party’s full weight comes down on them.
Refusing to vote for or support them is something that fits within my budget. Buying back the Democratic Party doesn’t, and frankly I don’t think there is any amount of money that will do that. Politicians chase the power that will go elsewhere. It’s what they have to do.
“We on the left need to learn the lesson of the tea party and work, vote and fight for control of the democratic party,”
That will only happen if some fat cat Dems pony up the millions to get it together and moving. That the created Teabagger monster turned on it’s creators and is buisy eating them is a point to remember also. But until someone either unwittingly or intentionally provides the seed money and organization for the leftwing version of the TeaParty(instead of the teabaggers) we are dead in the water.
What people constantly miss in this stuff is people will vote for “strong and wrong” every time over “weak and right”. One of these days this is going to sink in with “progressives”. There are people out there who don’t respect people like Obama who beg for votes and ask to be kicked in the face with sand.
Yep, I think WJC said that.
In other news…….ya gotta love that Willy Jeff…..he says the darnest things……..
Talking about the economic crisis in Europe and the persistent economic malaise in the United States, Clinton told CBNC that extending the Bush-era tax cuts across the board was “probably the best thing to do right now.”
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0612/77092.html#ixzz1x2a9FUPw
baa waa waa. Conservatives are hysterical.
Baa waa waa indeed!
Here’s the entirety of what Bill Clinton said:
“They will probably have to put everything off until early next year,” he told CNBC. “That’s probably the best thing to do right now. But the Republicans don’t want to do that unless he agrees to extend the tax cuts permanently, including for upper income people, and I don’t think the president should do that.”
He said it was probably the best thing to do right now (to put everything off until early next year) because he doubted that a long-term agreement on spending cuts and revenues would be reached until after the election.
Of course those tricky dick conservatives tried to twist his comments into an unrecognizable pretzel to suit their purposes. Surprise!
Clinton spokesman Matt McKenna issued a statement on the interview meant to clarify the remarks.”On extending the Bush tax cuts, as President Clinton has said many times before, he supported extending all of the cuts in 2010 as part of the budget agreement, but does not believe the tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans should be extended again,” McKenna said.
“In the interview, he simply said that he doubted that a long-term agreement on spending cuts and revenues would be reached until after the election,” he said.
…coming soon in a Mitt Romney political ad to you:
Talking about the economic crisis in Europe and the persistent economic malaise in the United States, Clinton told CBNC that extending the Bush-era tax cuts across the board was “probably the best thing to do right now.”
I just don’t think Willy is that into Barrie.
“A squishy Democrat who is basically the same as a Republican and sounds weaker isn’t going to cut it.”
Yeah. They’re ALL squishy these days. Obama also says he won’t extend the Bush tax cuts for the rich, but you know what? I DON’T BELIEVE HIM.
No one believes him.
Of course, we have all the other times he lied about that issue to remind us why….
Yup, and as George, Jr. infamously said: http://tinyurl.com/2xb933
The man’s a living mash-up.
I know I don’t. He reminds me of Lucy always promising Charlie Brown that this time, she won’t pull the football away right before he kicks it. He always falls for it and she always pulls the football away. We might as well have Lucy running for President for the Democrats in 2012.
The leader of the Country as well as the Democratic leader of his party, didn’t help fund or go to Wisconsin to help Barrett. Yes Wisconsin is a blue state so is Michigan and Pennsylvania, but that doesn’t mean Obama should skip going to these states if needed and help his fellow democratic candidates and he didn’t in Wisconsin. The democratic base got pushed under the bus. Like Taylor said, he should be thrilled that Mitt Romney is the candidate. It seems some polls are showing people wanting neither candidate thats running. I am in that group, that won’t vote for neither Romney or Obama. It has always been about Obama and will always be about Obama and to hell with anyone else.
Who is elected President matters, if only for the reason that s/he gets to appoint Supreme Court justices. And the Roberts’ court approved Citizens United – which is what Walker and his backers took advantage of. There was no level playing field – and the Democrats didn’t get the chance early on to counteract Walker’s message which dominated the airwaves. Had they been able to compete on a more level field, expose the truth, and get their message out earlier, Barrett may have well won, but you just can’t compete when you’re so outgunned financially. This is a huge wake up call. I also think the timing of the recall was unfortunate – a lot of the energy/momentum from the previous year probably got old. But we learn from our mistakes, regroup, and never give up. The big spenders count on people being demoralized.
I say this as a union member and officer.
Blaming this on the Democratic Party is ridiculous. Obama was right to stay out of this. The Wisconsin recall was a state issue, not a federal issue. The DNC was right to stay out of it. There is no way the DNC could have invested enough money to make up for a 7 point loss.
Big labor could not make the case against Scott Walker because regular DEMOCRATS and UNION MEMBERS could not understand why supporting Big Labor is good for themselves. The lesson from this defeat is not that “Obama Sucks” or that “Democrats Sucks”. It should be that the labor movement has a PR problem. We have work to do. We have to make the case for unions.
This stuff about blaming Obama or Democrats is just a needless distraction.
I tend to agree with you Psychodrew. I don’t understand why people vote against their own interests but they do. Go figure.
I don’t understand why people vote against their own interests but they do.
The problem is neither party currently supports “the people’s interests.” Should be obvious, then, that the party with the bigger wallet will always win.
I think that this election shows that unions have a PR problem, that’s for sure. But the Democrats failed, too, for multiple reasons. The Republicans felt no compunction to spend in the state. The Democrats neither spent nor lent a hand, for the most part. The Democrats’ failure, and their reaction to that failure, is just as important as labor’s failure and reaction, albeit for different reasons.