DEFENSE HACKS led by “Just One Minute” made a lot of noise on Wednesday, writing Trayvon Martin “showed bloody knuckles,” while burying the lede offered by NBC’s report that this wasn’t the case after their review of the actual autopsy. This reveals the problem with being for one side without at least making a good faith attempt at putting emotion and bias aside.
Florida teenager Trayvon Martin died from a single gunshot wound to the chest fired from “intermediate range,” according to an autopsy report reviewed Wednesday by NBC News. The official report, prepared by the medical examiner in Volusia County, Fla., also found that the 17-year-old Martin had one other fresh injury – a small abrasion, no more than a quarter-inch in size – on his left ring finger below the knuckle. – Trayvon Martin killed by single gunshot fired from ‘intermediate range,’ autopsy shows
If you’re looking for the defense view, Jeralyn Merritt would be your best source. For the prosecution, I’d stick with The Grio team.
In Wednesday’s column, citing an earlier report that George Zimmerman “called 911 dozens of times in the months that led to the fatal shooting,” the time line was over a period of several years, Zimmerman making 46 calls from 2004 to 2011.
From a New York Times correction:
An earlier version of this article misstated the time period in which Mr. Zimmerman made 46 calls to 911. The calls were made over the course of about eight years, not 14 months.
This could be seen as equally damning from the prosecution’s angle, because it goes to George Zimmerman’s state of mind. It could aid Corey’s office when coupled with Zimmerman’s medical report compiled by the family physician, which reveals he’d been prescribed medication “prior to shooting” Trayvon Martin dead.
According to the report, prior to the shooting Zimmerman had been prescribed Adderall and Temazepam, medications that can cause side effects such as agitation and mood swings, but in fewer than 10 percent of patients.
“Prior to the shooting” needs further defining, but the reasons for the prescriptions could weigh heavily on Zimmerman’s behavior patterns before the night of the shooting.
Merritt described the drugs briefly, while defense hacks blew right over their presence in Zimmerman’s report.
The report also lists medication he was using. He took a medication that is routinely prescribed for children and young adults with attention-deficit disorder and a sleep medication.
We’ll have to wait to see what “prior to the shooting” means, but the medications are a window into Zimmerman’s state of mind, his challenges navigating in life, which we all have, but which also brings up questions about his judgment in discerning what connotes an actual threat versus his overactive mind, something that defense attorneys in general, not speaking of Merritt but specially about Mark O’Mara, Zimmerman’s attorney, would want to play down for good reasons.
According to the National Institute of Health, Temazepam is used to treat insomnia. Adderall is a Class II drug used in cases of Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD). According to Web MD, one of the possible reactions is “aggressive behavior,” something the prosecution is sure to mine.
The New York Times today reviews, defense advocates would say rehashes, what remains a primary issue in this case, which is the Sanford Police Dept.’s shoddy work when the case first happened.
In interviews over several weeks, law enforcement authorities, witnesses and local elected officials identified problems with the initial investigation:
¶ On the night of the shooting, door-to-door canvassing was not exhaustive enough, said a law enforcement official familiar with the investigation. If officers had been more thorough, they might have determined that Mr. Martin, 17, was a guest — as opposed to an intruder — at a gated community called the Retreat at Twin Lakes. That would have been an important part of the subjective analysis that night by officers sizing up Mr. Zimmerman’s story. Investigators found no witnesses who saw the fight start. Others saw parts of a struggle they could not clearly observe or hear. One witness, though, provided information to the police that corroborated Mr. Zimmerman’s account of the struggle, according to a law enforcement official.
¶ The police took only one photo at the scene of any of Mr. Zimmerman’s injuries — a full-face picture of him that showed a bloodied nose — before paramedics tended to him. It was shot on a department cellphone camera and was not downloaded for a few days, an oversight by the officer who took it.
¶ The vehicle that Mr. Zimmerman was driving when he first spotted Mr. Martin was mistakenly not secured by officers as part of the crime scene. The vehicle was an important link in the fatal encounter because it was where Mr. Zimmerman called the police to report a suspicious teenager in a hooded sweatshirt roaming through the Retreat. Mr. Zimmerman also said he was walking back to the vehicle when he was confronted by Mr. Martin, who was unarmed, before shooting him.
¶ The police were not able to cover the crime scene to shield evidence from the rain, and any blood from cuts that Mr. Zimmerman suffered when he said Mr. Martin pounded his head into a sidewalk may have been washed away.
¶ The police did not test Mr. Zimmerman for alcohol or drug use that night, and one witness said the lead investigator quickly jumped to a conclusion that it was Mr. Zimmerman, and not Mr. Martin, who cried for help during the struggle.
Some Sanford officers were skeptical from the beginning about certain details of Mr. Zimmerman’s account. For instance, he told the police that Mr. Martin had punched him over and over again, but they questioned whether his injuries were consistent with the number of blows he claimed he received. They also suspected that some of the threatening and dramatic language that Mr. Zimmerman said Mr. Martin uttered during the struggle — like “You are going to die tonight” — sounded contrived.
Was Trayvon Martin a life threat to George Zimmerman, who had been repeatedly called 911 over many years, 46 times, or simply seen as threatening from the view of an hyperactive mind due to Zimmerman’s Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD)? Even if Zimmerman felt threatened, why did he feel his life was in danger enough to shoot an unarmed teen?
Did a suspension for graffiti, then being found with “an empty bag with traces of marijuana,” mean more than a teen possibly experimenting with the drug? A police investigator said he saw Martin on school surveillance “hiding and being suspicious” and also stated he witnessed Martin carve “WTF” in a school door. When his belongings were searched for tagging equipment, “a screwdriver that he described as a ‘burglary tool’” was found. From a previous report from the Miami Herald:
Trayvon’s backpack contained 12 pieces of jewelry, in addition to a watch and a large flathead screwdriver, according to the report, which described silver wedding bands and earrings with diamonds.
Trayvon was asked if the jewelry belonged to his family or a girlfriend.
“Martin replied it’s not mine. A friend gave it to me,” he responded, according to the report. Trayvon declined to name the friend.
Trayvon was not disciplined because of the discovery, but was instead suspended for graffiti, according to the report.
As for Trayvon Martin being killed from an “intermediate range,” this from a defense attorney group, with a firearm expert in resident:
Determining the Distance of the Shooter from the Victim
Examination of the gunshot wound can help determine many factors involved in the shooting, including the distance of the shooter from the victim. Gunshot wounds can be classified based on the range from the muzzle of the gun to the target. These classifications include contact, near-contact, intermediate, and distant wounds.
I would also question analysis from people on whether they or someone close to them owns a firearm and has one in their house, and if they themselves are ready to use a firearm for protection. It matters, because unless you’ve had a loaded weapon in your hand, fired it and understand the gravity of that power, let alone what carrying a concealed weapon means, you can’t possibly know what it takes to pull a loaded weapon in open territory, not your home where you have been threatened, to kill an unarmed civilian.
Why did George Zimmerman fear for his life when Martin was unarmed? He’s got a gun and might been able to warn the teen off with that announcement alone. Martin’s “a quarter-inch in size” knuckle abrasion hardly illustrates a dire life threat.
My husband was shot at close range years before I met him and almost died, which I’ve written about before. Two young, black thugs –the assessment at the time after the crime– came out of nowhere in the projects he was servicing as a senior gas technician at night to shoot him for no reason at all. Except for a Cook County surgeon who happened to be visiting a friend at the hospital where Mark was taken on that very night, we would never have met. So I have seen first-hand the reaction of a good man to young African American teens gone wrong and sympathize with reactions toward Zimmerman, up to a point.
Mark’s reality is a long way from where George Zimmerman sat the night he shot and killed Trayvon Martin. Even my husband scoffs at the notion George Zimmerman had the right to fire on an unarmed Trayvon Martin.
The racial angle exists and is embedded in this case, because there had reportedly been burglaries in the area by African Americans, with Zimmerman’s own words at times inflammatory, compounded by the uproar from the Sanford community that precipitated a special prosecutor taking over the case. Ignoring the racial angle is irresponsible wishful thinking and transporting America to a Shangri-La unreality.
The girlfriend’s call with Trayvon Martin was said at the time to have been the community tipping point and Benjamin Crump, the attorney for Martin’s family, certainly thought so, too.
“He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man,” Martin’s friend said. “I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run, but he said he was not going to run.”
Eventually, he would run, said the girl, thinking that he’d managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.
“Trayvon said, ‘What are you following me for,’ and the man said, ‘What are you doing here.’ Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again, and he didn’t answer the phone.”
Guns don’t kill, people with guns kill. So making sure guns are in the hands of people who are responsible is important, with people having concealed carry rights and permits expected to be even more vigilant.
As I’ve written before, I encouraged my husband to get a concealed carry for his work in the Las Vegas desert, where he was out at night late and alone. So, I’m not afraid of weaponry, having fired semi-automatics myself, my gun expert husband having had several weapons at one time.
Whether George Zimmerman was a man who should have been carrying a concealed weapon may be beyond the Trayvon Martin case, but it is something worthy of open discussion, because a concealed carry is a very serious right to wield.
It’s important to add gun owners rights do not exceed the rights of citizens without guns to feel safe.
That George Zimmerman chose to fire on an unarmed civilian should inspire challenges to Stand Your Ground laws, of which I remain deeply skeptical, and alarm every person who supports gun rights of individuals, which I do.
Ms. Marsh, much like the last Primary for President exposed misogyny running rampant through the supposedly progressive/Liberal/Democratic political world this case has exposed a deep, sickening just under the surface river of racism flowing sluggishly through the same groups ready to boil to the surface when a pebble is thrown in.
One need only skim the reams of crap about how Trayvon was dressed etc. etc. etc. so it was HIS FAULT from scared little white boys and girls to see what anyone with eyes in their heads and more then two functioning brain cells in their skulls are forced to the inescapable conclusion of. Them Black males are ALL DANGEROUS!!!! So shoot first and not eveen ask questions latter, don’t ask no questions at all.
This more then anything in the last decade has sickened me and made me fear for the country. Just when it starts to look like we are actually making progress towards a sane society…racism rears it’s ugly head. What is WRONG with us that we can not leave this stupidity behind??
It’s even coming back through Sean Hannity elevating Edward Klein’s interview of Jeremiah Wright. I’ll have something on this & the Super Pac for Romney who wants to dredge up Wright again later today.
The most dangerous part about the Trayvon Martin – George Zimmerman case is the determined efforts of individuals to ignore that race is embedded in this incident, because it’s in every aspect of the escalation of this case that finally got Zimmerman arrested, which should have been done immediately.
Anyone thinking that if Trayvon Martin had held the gun, with Zimmerman the one dead, he wouldn’t have been immediately arrested by the Sanford police is thinking like a child.
Hey Sec, now you can hear the Rev Wrights interview tapes.
They are being released over the next few days.
I todl you he knew where the bodies were buried and he has even more to say from what I hear.
Back on topic, while I think it is very sad that Trayvon died, our country has major issues that will directly affect ALL of our lives and the media wants us to focus on this?
Trust me, there are men and women of ALL races victimized by racism daily.
Will it get worse?
Maybe.
That is what happens when the leader of the country is working to divide people via race, class, political ties and whatever else, for political reasons because his awful record can’t be used to get him reelected.
Why doesn’t he just marry Kim Kardashian, get his own celebrity reality show, get the hell out of the way and let the grown ups fix this mess. But like a true celebrity in today’s world his ego will not allow it. So here we sit with our country imploding being spoon fed another story by the media to further divide us. I have a feeling the media elite already have their safe houses ready for when the riots start and the cities burn.
Sasha, I am rubbing my hands together like a giddy child. Can’t wait!
“That is what happens when the leader of the country is working to divide people via race, class, political ties and whatever else, for political reasons because his awful record can’t be used to get him reelected.”
My gawd what ain’t even there, are you really as delusional and disconnected from reality as you come across? I mean you seem to be suckling at the teat of Breitfart or limpwithnoballs.
This was a good write-up.
Thus far, the only indication we have that race played a role is that Zimmerman found Martin suspicious because there had been break-ins in the neighborhood committed by young black men or teens. Anything else is simply conjecture on anyone’s part until more details come out via discovery that is revealed by Florida law, or in trial.
It is true that Martin was unarmed. However, Zimmerman may not have known he was unarmed. This is conjecture on my part, but Zimmerman had stated on the 911 tape that Martin had something in his hands, so Zimmerman may have thought Martin was armed. I have repeatedly stated that
I think Zimmerman used poor judgment, but I do not have the details to determine that he broke Florida’s law (either stand your ground or self-defense). That is up to the jury to decide.
As far as the use of Jeremiah Wright, I really do not see an issue with it. Obama is capable of much the same…. However, Romney has already come out vehemently against this so I believe the super pac is reconsidering.
Hey WP,
Rev Wright doesn’t need a super pac.
In his own words, he has a box of evidence that could put Barrie in a cell right next to John Edwards.
Am I the only one concerned about the beatings in retaliation of the Trayvon case?
They seem to be multiplying.
@casaulo, are you an attorney?
I really enjoy reading your posts. You are very even handed.
@casaulo, are you an attorney?
Past tense…….I now fish for a living.
Hi Hal!
Sasha – Like your new avatar!
Why thank you WP!
Hey, if your beef is the prosecution is under-represented by talented individuals on the blogs, I’ll be happy to switch sides if the fee is the same.
So, let’s get started…….let’s not push this Zimmerman medication thing too much, remember, we are going for murder in the second degree (evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life), not involuntary manslaughter. We certainly don’t want that white hispanic vigilante just doing a year or two, do we?
Let’s not give the defense an argument his actions that night could have been influenced by some prescription medication, OK, my comrades?
Sure, we can push the racial profiling theme some more for awhile…….at least it will help sell some newspapers. However, if our case isn’t thrown out by Lester and if Zimmerman doesn’t decide to go bench trial, we should probably quiet this shit down by petit jury time. Let’s remember, Volusia County is 87% white and Bernie only has a limited number of preemptory challenges.
Defense hacks? As opposed to run-of-the-mill hacks? I’ve never heard of a defense hack before, but hey, every day is a learning opportunity.
This reveals the problem with being for one side without at least making a good faith attempt at putting emotion and bias aside.
Um, yeah! Amen, sister.
How many previous break-ins must there be for Zimmerman not to be charged with having a hyperactive mind? Might you concede his medication was doing exactly what it should be doing for him and that the record of break-ins and times when offenders have gotten away would justify his vigilance? Just asking.
Asked and answered many times. The unarmed teen was beating the living shit out of Zimmerman and going for his gun.
Oh, mercy sakes alive! How many times can you ask this question? Here’s the answer again: Trayvon was beating the living shit out of Zimmerman and going for his gun, so Zimmerman shot him. Simple.
Das rayciss!
As for race being embedded in this case, yes, it is now, thanks to those buffoonish hucksters Sharpton and Jackson and their media enablers. Was race a factor in Zimmerman checking out Trayvon? I, for one, don’t think so. And was it a factor in the supposed slow-walk of the investigation? Again, I don’t think so.
I will rephrase if for you: That George Zimmerman was forced to shoot someone who was on him beating the shit out of him …
Just keeping everyone accountable. You’re welcome.
Also –
This too is conjecture …(the part between the asterisks. There has not been any evidence to prove this as of yet:
Eventually, he would run, said the girl, thinking that he’d managed to escape. *****But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.*****
Likely this will all come down to who believes whom on the witness stand.
Some details about intermediate range
“In near-contact wounds, the muzzle is not in contact with the skin, but is very close. In this case, the powder grains do not have a chance to disperse and leave a powder tattooing. The entrance wound is surrounded by a wide zone of powder soot, and seared, blackened skin. In intermediate-range wounds, the muzzle is held away from the skin but close enough that it still produces powder tattooing. This type of wound is also characterized by numerous reddish-brown to orange-red lesions around the entrance to the wound. Finally, distant gunshot wounds leave no marks other than those produced by the bullet perforating the skin.”
http://www.relentlessdefense.com/forensics/gunshot-wounds/
Also — Intermediate range gunshot wounds from what I googled can occur within the following range (6-8 inches to 1.5-3.5 ft).. I think his depends on the gun. I did find another ballistics report that stated that intermediate range, indicated by powder tatooing, can occr as close as 10mm which is less than half an inch. I am not sure which is correct, and I assume the prosecution has more ballistic details to determine the distance from the gun to the skin.
More info on gunshot wounds:
“The most difficult problem is distinguishing a distant from a contact wound. The factors that can affect the amount and distribution of gunshot residue (GSR) on skin and clothing include: (1) firing distance, (2) length and diameter of the firearm barrel, (3) characteristics of the gunpowder, (4) angle between the firearm barrel and target, (5) characteristics of the cartridge, (6) the environment (moisture, wind, heat), (7) type of clothing, (8) intermediate targets, and (9) characteristics of the target (tissue type, putrefaction, blood marks) (Tugcu et al, 2006).”
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNINJ.html
As it was raining the night of the shooting, I wonder if the medical examiner had difficulty in determining the distance from the gunpowder marks.
Whitepaw, since I have now been retained to assist the prosecution, I can only suggest you might want to search out the cite for where a police report makes note of powder burns on the deceased’s clothing. You might wish to make the point the gun muzzle was apparently in contact with the clothing, but if these were loose fitting and hanging down (as if to suggest the deceased was on top of the vigilante at the point of shooting), the gap between the clothing and the skin of the deceased accounts for the “intermediate” distance while otherwise they two actors were in close to each other.
CO, so good to have you here. Put on your armor.
I see no need for armor. We had an old saying, no matter what side you are on, the law actually always says the same thing.
I will participate when there is a discussion of what the law says or what the physical facts are or even plausibly are, but color me gone whenever we are attempting to read the mind’s of the actors, wasting everyone’s time on inadmissable evidence and my favorite, “Zimmerman is guilty under the laws as I construct them in my own mind”.
Thanks Hal — Makes perfect sense…
While I am looking this up, do you have any insight on the forensic accuracy of voice analysis or voice biometrics? Thanks again!
Yes, but not enough time today to type out all my thoughts. However, the main point, is for the testing to be credible in this instance, there should be baseline samples of each potential speaker and those samples should attempt to replicate the words under evaluation and the situation these were spoken in. One could attempt to garner a qualified sample from Zimmerman, but it’s unlikely something close previously exists on Martin.
At the time of the Arthur hearing, when O’Mara called Gilbreath to the stand, you will recall Gilbreath testified there was nothing conclusive from either the Sentinel’s attempts or the FBI.
The opinions from the two “volunteer” experts, in my opinion, are not going to pass the Frye standard for generally accepted expert testimony. I believe Corey followed the old trial practice axiom of list everybody but the kitchen sink on your witness list, but I am going to speculate voice analysis really isn’t going to be a part of the state’s case.
Meh CO, it depends on what the Voice Analysis brings in, and with what certainty. If the analysis can provide triple nine compliance (99.9%) can that Still be reasonably doubted? With only two voices of concern, and only the question being young male teen vs older man voice, maybe Voice Analysis can provide triple nine compliance. Hard to say if the state of the art is even up to even that simple challenge though.
If the analysis can provide triple nine compliance (99.9%) can that Still be reasonably doubted?
Beyond a reasonable doubt has never meant beyond any doubt. Dumbasses should not sit on juries.
—From a commenter at JustOneMinute
See the link I posted below.. from ABCnews… If true, the autopsy report showed Martin had THC (the drug found in marijuana) in his blood. The family states it was trace amounts. I am not sure how long THC will remain in the blood. Anyway… may or may not be true.
Read it and weep, pretenders and race baiters. Seriously, you should all be ashamed of yourselves.
And this video proves what again???
Nothing you have here proves that Zimmerman’s life was in danger– not a God-Damn thing.
I have personally seen worse head injuries in my life as Navy Corpsman from sailors bumping into odd bits of steel.
What else you got. Witnesses claiming Martin was using Mix Martial arts on Zimmerman? Riiiiiight. So riddle me this, if Martin was beating the crap out of Zimmerman, why then only a 1/4 in abrasion to one knuckle? That is a very trivial injury for a man who is punching the living daylights out another man. What no boxer’s fracture? ( yes there is such a thing, and I’ve seen and x-rayed a few)
And then there is the question of who really started the fight. You Can’t really go by Zimmerman’s account, now can you, not really reliable is he? And the witness did not see the start of the fight either now did they? And if the cops saw the altercation, and are running full bubble into the fray– um, how is Zimmerman’s life endangered again? He curls into a fetal ball, covering his head, and waits for the calvary to arrive.
So we really are back to square one,
How and why did Zimmerman come into contact with Martin?
Who really started the altercation?
Was Zimmerman in really in mortal danger from Martin?
Only a jury can answer those question, you’re not part of that jury. But you are one bigoted SOB.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-documents-released-shooting-george-zimmerman/story?id=16371852
If this is true, then newly leaked evidence shows two things:
1. Autopsy reports state Martin was shot from a distance between 1 and 18 inches.
2. Martin had THC, the drug found in marijuana, in his blood on the night of his death, according to the autopsy. His family told ABC News that it was “trace amounts” of THC.
Yeah, seems the darling little angel was out smoking a fattie and walking around in the rain. Acting strangely as if he were on drugs or something … just like Zimmerman said. Why has this man been arrested again? And where does George go to get his life and reputation back?
Whitepaw,
THC is a fat soluble drug. That means it hangs around in trace amounts, in your fat for quite a long time. You can get happy with MJ on a Friday and still have traces in your blood ready to join forces for your next weekend indulgence. The final answer would be blood serum levels at the time of the incident.
Personally I can not get worked up by the marijuana talking point. I remember when I was a teen, in an upscale NJ neighborhood no less, that I was damn near tripping over the stuff everywhere I went. These were the children of upper middle class white people I’m talking about, the parents were VPs of Exxon, Department Heads at Bell Labs, high powered lawyers and executives– all the way back in the mid 1970′s. The kids then did all right Whitepaw, and if Martin had not been gunned down, he might too have done allright as well. Teens do stupid stuff all the time, and they usually outgrow that stuff. Martin never got the chance to out grow that stuff; now did he?
So Zimmerman gets to kill him for being intoxicated? Really RR? Oh and riddle me this why is Zimmerman following a man he thinks may be intoxicated, and may act in a dangerously irrational way? Not a very bright thing to do IMHO.
Zimmerman’s reputation is quite secure RR; he is, and will be forevermore, a base fool who got way over his head because he had delusions of competence.
As his for his life, that is a good question, all depends if his doc can get a handle on the ADHD. Even if he never met Treyvon Martin, Zimmerman’s life would be problematic; being a hunter in a farmer’s world is no easy task.
No. That would be a wrong reason to kill someone. Trayvon was spooking around at night in the rain at a time when others who fit his profile had been breaking into homes and stealing what other people had worked and paid for.
For a kid on a 10-day suspension, Trayvon still had his phone, was allowed to leave the house, and had $40 bucks in his pocket. We should all wish to be punished by Trayvon’s parents.
If the newly released evidence is true, then I do tend to agree, as a step-mom who parented two wonderful stepsons for the last 16 years, that Trayvon Martin (at least on that evening), was given too much freedom after being served a 10-day suspension… especially as this was not his first suspension. He was left alone, while his father and fiance went to dinner… I do not think he should have been left alone (with a younger teen), with money and a cell-phone… and a lighter… why did he need a lighter unless it was to light something (I assume he was not burning candles). His father appears to have been too lenient with him. As Trayvon was left alone… having money and a cell phone were appropriate…. but then when his father returned around 1130pm, he noticed Trayvon was not home and only thought that perhaps he was at the movie. That also shows leniency. Our boys would have been grounded, and we would have been around to ensure they remained at home. (My boys were never suspended, but they were certainly grounded at times… for much less). Anyway… I guess people just parent differently.
With that said, none of Trayvon’s nor his father’s missteps mean that Trayvon deserved to die that night.
We will just have to wait for al the evidence to come out to form conclusions about Zimmerman’s innocence or guilt. Good that we have Hal to enlightne us re: both the defense and the prosecution…
And who the hell are you Whitepaw to give the Martins parenting tips? Your life is not their life. Your values are not their values. Were you in close contact with Treyvon Martin on a day to day basis? Do you know what type of discipline worked with him and what didn’t. Do you know what the Martins tried before and did not work. NO. You don’t. You don’t have a FUCKING CLUE.
So do me a favor, stop blaming the victims here. These people lost a son. Don’t you think they might be going over the same ground you just outlined? If we had only been a little stricter, if we had only …
Both you and RR are sickening me with this bigoted, sanctimonious palaver. The father and mother of Treyvon Martin did the best they could by their lights. They are parents, not jailers and Tavon was a teen.
You have zero right to criticize their parenting techniques Whitepaw. The only reason I can see anyone doing so is to further, even if unconsciously, a bigoted meme about black folk being lax parents. The only reason to open this can of worms is to justify the slaying of Martin by Zimmerman. Riddle me this Whitepaw, when did breaking curfew become a capitol offense?
Your parenting worked on your stepsons–all stop. It is not the least bit germain to the parenting Treyvon Martin got. Your whole talking point is a red herring. Zimmerman killed Treyvon Martin, he pulled the trigger, he is at least civilly liable, and possibly criminally liable as well.
Stop changing the subject; stop trying to lay blame elsewhere. Zimmerman is both the proximate and main cause of Treyvon Martin’s death; he is one of only two main actors. It is Zimmerman’s actions and decisions, along with Martin’s, that the only points worthy of discussion. By dragging Martin’s parents into this discussion you are only being pointlessly mean, foolish, self-righteous, and vicious.
Spin, as a society, we do have some common values, and as a society, we have every right to criticize someone’s parenting if said parenting or lack thereof allows their little fools out to steal from and harm the rest of us.
If Trayvon were standing in front of a judge and having been found guilty of some crime, you think the judge wouldn’t give the parents a stern talking-to?
I have every right to express my opinion on this board as do you. You are right, I do not know their parenting skills, but I can find it strange… the way they were handling things. You can insist I am bigoted as much as you want.. I prefer not to name call others on this board for expressing their opinions. I know in my heart that I am not bigoted and that is all that matters to me.
Totally beside the point RR. And fuck you for blaming the victim. The kid is dead, not because his parents made bad choices, but because Zimmerman made bad choices. Those parents lost a son–do you get that? And here you are pouring salt on their raw wounds. And to what purpose? To vomit up racist, bigoted talking points about “those people.”
Spin, it is not beside the point just because you say it is. The truth is that the Martins did not have a handle on their son, and look what happened. Now they are milking his death. Outrageous.
And I have not said those people. Shame on you.
THC is rapidly metabolized….a few hours later and a test via blood draw would not detect any. However, it is excreted through urine over a course of two weeks. So it would be useful to know what method of test was performed.
The autopsy report shows:
THC…. from chest blood…..1.5ng/ml
THC-COOH…. from chest blood…..7.3ng/ml
cannabinoids…. from urine… presumed pos.
This is all I know
Damn, WP! You go!
I think, based upon these levels, and what I am reading, it would have been at least 3 hours since he smoked marijuana, and Martin would not be considered impaired (for example to drive a car), in many states.
If true, then this is just another indicator of parenting that was too lenient… in my opinion…
However, the autopsy does not occur until the next morning and it is unclear whether the THC levels would have dropped (whether metabolism continues). This is unlikely from my basic understanding of biology as enzymes require certain conditions (temperature, pH levels, blood circulation, etc.) to function properly and this is unlikely after death. But I will leave this question to the experts.
If true, then this is just another indicator of parenting that was too lenient… in my opinion…
And you’re opinion on the matter is beside the point; and is once again pointlessly mean, foolish, self-righteous, and vicious.
Spin, it seems as if you have purchased the same broken record that Sec keeps playing. I know it’s tough to have your meanie racist narrative fall apart. Y’all try to keep it together for us though.
Ng would be nanograms Whitepaw. That would also be per cc of blood (the ml) part. That is a fairly sensitive test, but I guess it has to be because even with tylenol you’re putting only a gram of medicine (max) in a circulatory system that has 5.6 liters of blood. That is one gram of medicine mixed into 5,600 ml. I doubt any person could get a gram of THC into there body even on a dare. OK, maybe Bob Marley, on a really awesome day, perhaps.
I know full well what a ng is…. I also know what a ml is… I do not need for youi to enlighten me.. I am very well versed in concentrations per volume and what it means. I have a degree in biology and advanced degrees in electrical engineering… and have taken more chemistry courses than I even care to admit.
I already stated above that based upon these THC levels, it is likely that anything smoked was at least 3 hours before (meaning at least….. as in it could have been longer than that).
I have also stated that I do not believe that the THC is a reason for Trayvon to have been killed. I have stated that in my opinion, Zimmerman used poor judgment. I have stated that even though, in MY OPINION, I think Trayvon`s parents should have handled his 2nd suspension with stricter discipline, that that is not a reason for Trayvon Martin to have been killed.
However…. LIKE you.. none of us knows what really happened and the evidence is just coming out. Unlike so many on this board, I never rushed to judgment (unless you consider my recent opinion stated about parenting)…
Depends on the test CO. THC has to be in the blood stream, in trace amounts, for it to pop in urine. With gas spectrum analysis very minute amounts of THC can be detected in the urine for up to a month in very heavy users of THC. The only reason blood tests do not get this granular is by this time the suspect, person of interest, job interviewee, is not impaired. Urine is much simpler to collect than blood, so all the testing regimes use urine to find out if you have gotten “happy’ in the last week or two.
When did this place become such a cesspool of racist wannabees…..hey, sounds like Zimmerman!
Whatever SEC… You are a broken record and cetainly entitled to your opinion..
Only playing counterpoint to the wingnutish drone and fevered squealing.
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/05/trayvon_martin_unavoidable_documents_george_zimmerman.php?ref=fpnewsfeed
I have always stated that in my opinion, Zimmerman did not use good judgment… meaning he should have reported Martin and left it at that. But poor judgment does not mean he broke a law.
Even though the TPM link you posted and states that Zimmerman confronted Martin, at this point I believe this still remains an unknown. Recall that one of the lead investigators admitted UNDER OATH during the bond hearing that they had no evidence of who confronted whom, and who initiated the altercation. This may change as more evidence is revealed, but from what I understand thus far, it is an unknown. We do not know if Zimmerman continued to pursue Martin after he was asked not to, or if Martin came back after Zimmerman.
You should really listen to the call to the non-emergency police dept. again. It is clear that Zimmerman was outside his truck already when he was asked not to pursue, then he stays on the phone for quite a bit more time discussing where he will meet the police… he does not appear to be running at this time at all. It does not seem that Zimmerman continued to pursue when he was asked not to…. but again… once all the evidence is revealed it will be easier to make a judgment re: this
I realize there is absolutely nothing to be said to change your mind SEC… Nit even sure that your mind needs to be changed in this instance…. just that all the facts have not been revealed yet. Regardless of what is finally revealed, you will always believe what you want to believe and you will always trash and use name-calling and cries of racism wherever you see fit…. such a very nice personality trait you have. Keep on being SEC…. we are all used to it.
Or how about this perspective, Sec?
Sec, can’t you figure out how to use the link button?
Here is audio from the girlfriend. A little warning: she is a half-wit.
Our poor educational system.
I couldn’t understand anything she said.
“Here is audio from the girlfriend. A little warning: she is a half-wit.” “Our poor educational system.
I couldn’t understand anything she said.”
You know, you’re right…maybe we should give Zimmerman back his gun and let him shoot her too? She sounds kinda thug there don’t she?
No, not a thug. Just stupid. I imagine her parents have not made her work very hard in school.
Say whatever stupid shit you want, but there is one indisputable fact. Zimmerman had a gun. Zimmerman followed Martin. Zimmerman killed Martin. All the rest is noise.
AliceP, I completely agree with you…
I also think this is an excellent post by Taylor. The following paragraph especially resonates with me:
I posted this elsewhere and wish to reiterate that this tragic incident shows what is wrong with a “self-appointed” neighborhood watchdog taking medications for psychological disorders and packing heat. Like so many other Deputy Dawg types who don’t have the chops to make it into law enforcement legitimately, Zimmerman had an over-inflated sense of his abilities to deal with this situation. The real police officers I know are trained on how to defend themselves in altercations so there is not a chance of the other guy grabbing of their weapons or turning the tables and beating the dickens out of them. The real police officers I know are trained to either work in teams or not pursue alone without calling for backup and waiting for the backup to arrive.
Taylor’s question above really gets to the heart of the matter: Do those who carry guns for protection really understand the gravity of the power they hold in their hands? Do they realize that using the weapon can result in taking a life, something that cannot be undone? Do they have a clue that taking a life has consequences and even though you survive and don’t go to jail for it, your life will never be the same again and neither will the lives of the families on both sides?
On many levels, Zimmerman was clearly out of his depth in this situation. He probably won’t get convicted and won’t go to jail because it will be very difficult for the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he broke the law. But as far as I am concerned, that IS NOT the point.
The point is, had George Zimmerman not exercised extremely poor judgment, made poor decisions and taken certain actions that night, he most likely would not have the blood of a dead Treyvon Martin on his hands.
Alice, let’s have you and LW68 move to Zimmerman’s community and let the little misunderstood darlings break into your home a time or two. Be sweet to them now, ya hear?
Yeah, cause everyone knows if THOSE people steal and stuff….you can just zap em!