“Don’t use pepper spray,” he told the Zimmermans, according to a friend. “It’ll take two or three seconds to take effect, but a quarter second for the dog to jump you,” he said. “Get a gun.” – Reuters
When the homeowners association asked George Zimmerman to begin a neighborhood watch, according to a Reuters report, he took it very seriously. In violation of neighborhood watch rules, Zimmerman began carrying his Kel-Tec on his patrols. It was the uncorking.
More from Reuters:
A criminal justice student who aspired to become a judge, Zimmerman also concerned himself with the safety of his neighbors after a series of break-ins committed by young African-American men.
[...] “Let’s talk about the elephant in the room. I’m black, OK?” the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. “There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood,” she said. “That’s why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin.”
The fact remains that George Zimmerman pursued Trayvon Martin with a concealed carry and Stand Your Ground gun laws bolstering his sense of civic duty that didn’t come with the training required to do what amounted to the job of policemen and women.
Then came 2005, and a series of troubles. Zimmerman’s business failed, he was arrested, and he broke off an engagement with a woman who filed a restraining order against him.
That July, Zimmerman was charged with resisting arrest, violence, and battery of an officer after shoving an undercover alcohol-control agent who was arresting an under-age friend of Zimmerman’s at a bar. He avoided conviction by agreeing to participate in a pre-trial diversion program that included anger-management classes.
Trayvon Martin represents the lightning strike in the middle of a perfect storm that begins with George Zimmerman’s life and his inability to deal with his own anger.
Following Trayvon Martin was wrong and Zimmerman was told not to pursue, which bears repeated reminding.
Targeting a person while carrying a weapon, with no crime having been committed and no suspicious activity involved to alarm, is felonious intent to play judge and jury of a man, because of other events that have no relation and can only be decided by law enforcement.
Zimmerman’s multicultural background is interesting, which a jury will consider, if this gets beyond the Stand Your Ground hearing, with the case allowed to go forward.
The fact remains that with the neighborhood robberies allegedly committed by African Americans as background information, George Zimmerman’s overblown sense of vigilantism pushed him to follow the black man wearing a hoodie.
There was no action by Trayvon Martin to warrant George Zimmerman tailing him, let alone pulling the trigger and ending his life.
The fact that Mr. Zimmerman had a previous history of violence, which is well documented. I always found it odd, reading comments posted by folks screaming that Trayvon Martin was the “thug.” Yeah right! You mean to tell me a man who attacked a “police officer” and his ” former girlfriend” who needed a restraining order against him, could never possibly have been the aggressor, the night Treyvon Martin died.
Like I’ve been saying over and over, nobody will ever know what went down that awful day. But I hope a jury is allowed to see and hear all evidence in this case. Until then I will remain suspicious of Mr. Zimmerman claims, he was just an innocent little sheep that was viciously attacked by an unarmed child (with no police record of violence) that day.
I hope this is not criticism. Would you want anyone on neighborhood watch to take the job less than seriously?
No, it is not a fact that Zimmerman pursued, to use your word. Zimmerman carried his weapon, which did indeed violate watch rules, but it wasn’t against the law. He legally carried his weapon.
What did he do that amounted to the job of policemen and women? He didn’t attempt an arrest. He didn’t command Trayvon to halt. He didn’t shoot at him from a distance. He did try to keep himself aware of Trayvon’s whereabouts and apparently didn’t do a very good job of it. That’s all.
Why was following Trayvon wrong? George lived on the property. He had every right to be on any sidewalk or common area on the property.
And told not to pursue? Did you watch the bail hearing? Galbraith was specifically asked whether the state had any evidence to refute Zimmerman’s contention that he turned back to the car when he was told to. Galbraith said no.
Didn’t you hear Zimmerman say the dude was acting suspiciously, wandering around in the rain? Felonious, balonious. If Zimmerman’s account is true, then nothing about his actions indicated an intent to play judge and jury. That’s just more hyperbole.
That’s the second the fact remains in the span of one post. Careful there. I know you care about credibility.
Unless you have a new-fangled way to get all up in another person’s head, you don’t know that it was an overblown sense of vigilantism that motivated Zimmerman. Could have been fear. Could have a sense of being fed up. Could have been a feeling to protect his neighbors.
I still fail to understand the hoodie thing. When did Zimmerman ever say Trayvon was suspicious because he was wearing a hoodie? He never said that. The operator asked what the suspect was wearing, and Zimmerman said hoodie. From that, you all have gotten all worked up about and concluded that Zimmerman went crazy and chased Trayvon because of black skin and a hoodie. You have nothing to base that on. Zero.
Taylor, until this post, I thought your writing on this issue was mostly responsible. This one was a disappointment.
I agree RR… I was also taken aback by all the “fact is” “fact remains”. Taylor may be right but until the evidence is presented, none of us know if these “facts” Taylor presents are factual, indeed.
“That’s the second the fact remains in the span of one post. Careful there. I know you care about credibility.”
“Taylor, until this post, I thought your writing on this issue was mostly responsible. This one was a disappointment.”
You know, somehow I kinda think Ms. Marsh’s credibility will survive disappointing a self exposed scared lil racist….I really do.
Shame on you, Sec.
For making the very logical assumption that a well established and respected Political Journalist’s reputation and credibility will survive the disappointment of a commentor on her blog whose own words have exposed his racist thought patterns?
Taylor is no shrinking violet. I’m pretty sure she can read my criticism and either dismiss it, take it to heart, or whatever. She is in the arena.
You should be ashamed of yourself for continuing to push the racist accusation. You are sounding like a broken record.
Simple truth, it’ll never get old.
To claim that Trayvon Martin was a child is a bit of a stretch… Certainly, he was a child of his parents, but he was also on the verge of adulthood. Essentially, he was a young man when he died.
Zimmerman pursued Martin initially, but there is no evidence presented yet to indicate that he continued to pursue after he was asked not to. This is conjecture at this time and may or may not be proven in court.
I really find it interesting what is highlighted in bold and not even addressed pertaining to the entire Reuters article. According to what was presented in court (testimony), Zimmerman was also able to get a restraining order against his girlfriend at the time. The judge ruled that the 2005 incidents were irrelevant at this time and certainly were not to be considered as a reason to deny bail at the bond hearing. It remains to be seen if this will even be allowed to be used as evidence if there is a trial.
We really do not know what happened, but most have already made up their minds as to the guilt or innocence of Zimmerman. I have not made up my mind at all… I will wait to judge.
Vigilantism is bad, I agree. However, according to Florida law, Zimmerman may not have committed a crime at all. In fact, it is even possible that he fired in self defense. I agree it would have been better if he was not carrying a gun… this would have been avoided.
Spot on, Whitepaw, and it should also be pointed out that the police officer Zimmerman attacked was in plain clothes, and Zimmerman thought he was aiding his friend.
Good for you for staying open-minded. I readily admit that I have made up my mind, but I am willing to be proven wrong. The Reuters piece was very illuminating for me. I’m glad you posted the link.
Most of the Reuters article painted a picture of how Zimmerman and the community he lived in got to the point of the incident… background info. One can choose to believe it or not.
I noticed that both Taylor and Sec yesterday jumped at the two paragraphs that described the incidents of 2005 (7 years ago)… and opined based upon this. Zimmerman did complete anger management at the time. From Taylor, this really stood out to me as a rush to judgment… her assumption must be that the anger management did not work (even though there were 7 years apparently without incident… unless something else comes out in court):
from Taylor:
“Trayvon Martin represents the lightning strike in the middle of a perfect storm that begins with George Zimmerman’s life and his inability to deal with his own anger.”
At least Taylor did bring attention to the burglaries by African American’s by quoting the article, but then later states they were “allegedly committted by African Americans”. While reading the article, I recalled that there was proof that the burglaries had been committed by African Americans.. I will have to review.
Like I stated above… many have already made up their minds and do not want to wait for the evidence in this case.
We should be reminded that Trayvon weighed 160 lbs, the same weight as Zimmerman. Trayvon was 6’3″ to Zimmerman’s 5’9, a six inch advantage, and Trayvon was younger and likely more agile, faster, and athletic. Some child. It was a travesty for media to continually post the photo of baby-faced Trayvon at twelve to the out-dated photo of Zimmerman when he was fat. And they are still using those photos! I want anyone to tell me media are not pushing an agenda.
Taylor, I know you know this if you will admit it. We saw the same despicable behavior when Hillary was running for president and constantly had to defend ourselves when we would bring this up.
whitepaw and RR…I think that Trayvon was seventeen right? That is still a child. I taught HS kids and they are just big kids. Remember the brain does not finish developing until 20 or 21 when abstract thought and critical thinking kick in to place.
Legally a child, but there’s a helluva lot of these children murdering and thieving and mugging and thudding and harassing and raping and selling drugs and filling up our courts and jails.
So, yeah, LL. They are children. Next time you encounter one of these little babies as you walk to your car at night from the mall, try not to clutch your purse tighter, and if one approaches you, breathe deeply so your heart won’t race.
Boo hoo.
Not thudding. I meant thugging. I want to be clear on that. Thugging.
Are you aware that crime stats have gone down?
More than legally RR…they have not developed into adults yet. They do not have adult reasoning ability.I hope you are not speaking of only AA kids when you describe thugs.They come in all hues you know.
I don’t go shopping at night. I don’t put myself places where I might be vulnerable. If you are attempting to scare me it won’t work
No, LL. When I say thug, I do not mean only black people. I have never once said that thugs are only black.
Please keep your racist adjectives in order there.
Sec, thug is not a racist term. (Oh, and by the way, it’s a noun, not an adjective. Just sayin’)
Thug is used as a descriptive adjective denoting a particular cultural life style. The Thug life.
Thanks LL… I definitely agree… This was most definitely a tragedy… Just not sure it was the type of tragedy some are trying to paint (not you of course).
Shelby Steele’s editorial The Exploitation of Trayvon Martin.
Worth a read.
Thanks — a good read
Agree or not with Shelby Steele, and I often don’t, the man can write his ass off.
No it’s not. Dude, c’mon. You are on the slippery slope to the dark side (no pun intended). Shelby Steele? Who’s next, Thomas Sowell? And after that, Dinesh D’Souza?
F.Scott Fitzgerald said that the true test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas and still retain the ability to function. Such as (1) Yes, let’s stipulate for the record that Al Sharpton, is an opportunistic, race pimping hustla. And yet (2) he was completely right about the need to take a deeper look at the case. As the saying goes, just cause you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you.
Memo: Steele and Sowell are just the mirror images of Sharpton and Jackson. They are race pimps too – just anti-race pimps. They earn their living by never seeing evidence of racism, even when it’s manifestly obvious.
I thought it was a good read. And you really do not know that the case needed to be looked into any more than it already was… There was a grand jury scheduled and they may have decided to arrest (or not).
There has been a lot of commentary (yes just opinions), questioning if the new States Attorney overcharged.
I am unfamiliar with Shelby Steele so cannot comment further than his editorial.
I am unfamiliar with Shelby Steele so cannot comment further than his editorial.
______________
Thank you for conceding the point I would have made.
Ogenec, I am very well aware of the perspective that Steele and Sowell come from. I read them both with that in mind, but it doesn’t keep me from reading them. D’Souza is fun to watch in any debate with Hitchens.
I was at first reluctant to post the link because I know that many will dismiss what is in the editorial merely because of who wrote it. Still, it’s important to read all sides.
Oh, I read them too, even Dinesh. Mostly for chuckles – hard to believe that anyone takes them seriously. Shelby and Sowell are smart guy. They know that if Sharpton, Jackson etc. were to suddenly evaporate, so would their careers. They are just opportunists, pimping their wares to a new contingent of fans. But their goods have a sell-by date – as soon as Obama leaves office, they will be of no more use. Then they will go back to writing self-loathing books that hardly anyone reads. And I don’t use the term “self-loathing” lightly. Shelby in particular is messed up in the head.
Hey, Ogenec, you promised you would get back to us on some of the frustrations you feel in your mentoring work. I’m interested in what practical advice you give and if you feel giving advice is a productive thing to do.
If you had unlimited resources and a government to back your ideas, what would you do to address the problems? And I am not going to say what I think the problems are. I’m curious how you would define them. Perhaps Taylor would open a separate thread to let us discuss this.
Sorry, yesterday was crazy. Actually, I don’t have any frustrations to share. I really enjoy mentoring. Part of it is, I’m a big kid anyway. I’m a big gamer, rap listener, car afficionado etc. So I relate to the young’uns better than some of my prematurely old peers.
As for giving advice, yes, that is an essential part of mentoring. But they make candy-flavored medicine for a reason. You gotta sneak it in. You can’t just wag your finger at them and say, pull your pants up, young man! And learn how to enunciate perfectly! Won’t work. Everyone has their own method, but mine is to show them what’s possible. The first part is aspirational and more than a little self-centered: If you go to school, you can have a career, which gets you money, which gets you all the nice trappings you want. The second part, the more sustainable and enriching part, is hard work is its own reward. That’s more difficult, but better. I see it with my own kids when we work through math problems on ixl. At first my girls want to answer the questions because they get a reward on the site if they answer correctly. Soon enough, however, they want to answer correctly because they love the challenge of learning new things. I think most people react in a similar way.
As for government and unlimited resources, that is a whole ‘nother subject in itself. I remain steadfast in my belief that government has to enable entrepreneurship, self-sufficiency, family stability, etc. Jack Kemp has a lot of great ideas, including the creation of enterprise zones in urban areas. I like that idea. I also like the idea of letting schools compete for students, like with vouchers and charter schools. I’ve said it before – there is a reason black mothers line around the block to try to get their kids into one of the few available slots at such schools. And before I get attacked, I’m not saying all public schools are bad, and I’m not demonizing teachers. I’m saying, I’m a free trader and I believe in competition. Let’s open the thing up, and see what innovations and interventions work, then scale it up. (By the way, the private school solution for disadvantaged children is a global issue, not just domestic – I recommend reading James Tooley’s The Beautiful Tree.)
I have a lot of other thoughts, but these will have to do as I’m rushing out the door. Sorry for delay in reverting.
How about we disconnect school funding from local property tax and local school boards absurd input as far as curriculum and set national standards so ALL kids get a good foundation primary education.
ogenec~ That is great that you are mentoring
I bet your kids love ya to death.
I don’t agree about charters and vouchers being the answer. We just had the State close up some Charters in St. Louis because they were not getting the job done. Like public schools some are great and some are not.
I don’t think public education is the appropriate place for market forces.If you look at the really successful charters they have wrap around services and are funded by wealthy benefactors trying to make a point.
The strength of a democracy has to be in a quality free public education. No reason why government could not do better wrap around services if it got it’s priorities straight.
I agree that some of Kemps ideas are good and urban enterprise zones if successful could not help but improve public education with an actual tax base for some of these depressed areas.Finding ways to get the middle class back into cities would be so helpful or better yet build a middle class within the city.
Are we talking true competition? Charters and the like can dismiss hard to educate or challenging students – public schools by law cannot. I don’t call that competitive – at least not on a level playing field. That is part of the reason why parents want their kids attending those schools – they have enforced behavior codes and discipline, which makes for a safe and secure learning environment. I agree with you on the innovation and interventions aspect, though.
This is OT, and I agree a separate thread is warranted. But yes lynnette, I am talking about real competition. In an ideal world, we would compare apples to apples. I would want to know, among other things, entering statistics of the cohort, attrition rates, results of competency assessments etc. Let’s get the data out and see how schools – private and public – stack up against each other.
But I reject the notion that education must necessarily be free or public. I believe private schools provide a real need. They are not the be-all and end-all. But they are part of the solution. LL, when you say that education is not the proper place for market forces, I couldn’t disagree more. There is a market for education, whether we want to admit it or not – that is the reason homes in good school districts cost more. It doesn’t make sense, to me, to not concede that point. And to leverage it in formulating policy.
Finally, I do agree that the current method of financing public schools perpetuates inequality and should be reformed.
LL couldn’t agree more regarding vouchers and charter schools. The first and most helpful thing would be a disconnect og education funding from local taxes.
ogenec~Say what you wnat about Jackson and Sharpton and I probably won’t argue but there have been times in recent history when they were the only ones out there taking about poverty and justice. Now Tavis and the Brother love Doc are doing a road show on the topic and good for them.
I agree on Shelby Steel and Dinesh D’ Souza not familar with Sowell.
Name one time, LL. I’ll wait.
Sharpton has come to the St. Louis area and given attention to problems that were not being addressed by local goverments particulary focusing on schools.
Jackson discusses poverty any time he gets a platform. The Dems try to marginalize him for this reason. There have been many presidentials when he was the only Democratic voice speaking out on poverty.
His journey has been important and he has been a witness to the struggle for civil rights first hand. He might not be a perfect human but who is?
I can’t watch the Rev’s show because I have never liked being preached to and he is so blind in his support for the president but many, many times I have seen him give a very smart and good argument to someone like Joe Scarbourgh when he is trying to revise history.
No, LL, I am not going to let you get away with that. You specifically said there have been times in recent history when they were the only ones out there taking about poverty and justice.
Now I would like for you to give me examples when they were the only two people out there talking about poverty and justice. Only Sharpton and Jackson and nobody else. That is what you said.
Zzzz … just crickets from LL.
It’s to make a statement you can’t back up, isn’t it?
Lake Lady;
I have no patience for either Jackson nor Sharpton at all. They are media whores and demagogues making a bad situation worse. Plenty of other people have talked about poverty, urban issues, etc but the Moron Media lets these two clowns suck up all the oxygen in the room. Sharpton lost me way back in the Twana Brawley incident. Life for Urban, minority, teens, especially for females, is bad enough without people making crap up. I shudder how badly the cause of black women was set back by Sharpton’s minstrel show. ( And yes, I do understand what those two words imply.)
” Steele and Sowell are just the mirror images of Sharpton and Jackson. They are race pimps too – just anti-race pimps. They earn their living by never seeing evidence of racism, even when it’s manifestly obvious.”
Bingo! Nicely played Ogenec; Golf claps all around.
The Author of “A bound Man”? No, RR Shelby Steel has nothing of any worth to contribute to ANY discussion. All he does is provide cover for toxic and bigoted memes put out by Lilly White Conservatives. It is a great gig that pays well, and Steel is foolish, delusional, and ideological enough to believe the garbage he puts out. There is alway room in the right wing for a dark man to kiss the butt of the status quo, there is alway room for a black man with a house slave’s mentality.
I will read A Bound Man, Spin.
RR,
I am in total agreement with you on this issue and have been since day one. You sound like you would be a good attorney.
Perhaps he is!
No, I just pay attention just like most of the commenters on Taylor’s blog. We don’t always agree, but most of us are well-informed and read carefully.
Since this topic is about the only one generating high thread count, my guess is this is intentionally chumming the water with the repetition of now refuted points for effect. I will post on this topic again only to revel in schadenfreude once Zimmerman is granted immunity.
I have to admit that I have wondered the same, but my experience here over the years helps me to set that thought aside. This is an issue worth discussing, and I refuse to let some of the ignorance and stupidity stand.
You have good patience to explain everything for the 14th time….I do not. I have moved forward to structuring the defamation of character lawsuit against NBC.
“We take this incident very seriously and apologize to our viewers,” said WTVJ spokesman Matt Glassman. “After conducting an extensive investigation, we are putting a more stringent editorial process in place to ensure this does not happen again.”
Glassman stressed that the Today show and Miami edits took place in two separate incidents involving different people.
It might well be defamation to edit the 911 calls in such a way as to suggest GZ was motivated by racism, DoT, and were it not for that implication, would the SP have been appointed and the indictment made? Would the NBPP put a bounty on his head forcing the Zimmerman family into hiding, GZ to lose his job and place in school? As for malice, it’s clear that the network knew the edit was phony and took its time to correct the error.
The ultimate turn of events will be to get lawsuit money for Zimmerman since I believe a lot of this stuff was manufactured to get lawsuit money for Crump/Martin/Sharpton Enterprises, Inc.
Good news. Media should be held accountable. George Zimmerman will need the money to keep his family safe.
Zimmerman won’t have two nickels to rub together once the civil case is decided R.R.
And there will be a civil case once the criminal avenue has exhausted itself.
Well, we will see. Let’s all be sure to gather back here when this is said and done.
Oh, anything about Hillary always generates a lot of comments.
Meh, not as much as back in 2008 R.R.
Fun times fighting that two front war; keeping the PUMA clowns and the Bots in line. The Bots are back, but the PUMA types are mercifully in deep or ready hiding; gone off to Larry Johnson’s toxic waste (net)site to thumb-suck and Obama bash.
Yeah, what ever happened to Larry and the whitey tape?
Much of the coverage of this case has been self-serving and inciting. I find that to really find the facts and objective reprting, you have to dig deep. I know that journalism is a business. I also feel that, just call me crazy, the benefit of reporting stories should be to the audience. Do I think Zimmerman was out to shoot and kill Trayvon Martin for no other reason than he was black? Not at all. Do I know for a fact Zimmerman acted entirely in self-defense and there was absolutly no wrong doing on his part? I do not know that. I will not take anyone seriously who feels that they do know these things. I am going to presume that Zimmerman is inocent until all of the facts are presented in his upcoming trial.
I am just waiting for the honest headline “IF GEORGE ZIMMERMAN IS FOUND INNOCENT WE WANT YOU TO RIOT!!!”
“Let’s wait for all the evidence to be presented”
“Nobody really knows what happened”
“Let the court do its job”
…and in the interim, scour the net for any source favorable to one side only, then present these sources as evidence of a ‘facts-only’ stance of impartiality.
SHTCBTMSM
What are you talking about? Posts have mostly been about the Reuters article Taylor posted.
Legal arguments aside for a moment, it creeps me out that some of the core readers on Taylor’s site are actively trying to paint Trayvon as anything other than the victim in this whole matter. Not a good look.
What is creepy is for a man to get railroaded as a racist murderer for defending his own life. That is creepy indeed and a slippery slope for us to get on.
Hi RR… We do not know this ……………
What is wrong with waiting for the justice system to do its job ???
The railroading is what I am talking about, Whitepaw.
You’re trying to counter the damage you believe a sensationalized media will have on George Zimmerman’s trial by intentionally vilifying Trayvon Martin.
Nice try RR, but no,
One more time, if he has stayed in the truck, he would not been in position to have to “defend his life.” Zimmerman’s far too numerous errors in judgment got him into a very tight spot. Where those errors were driven by criminal intent is up for debate; whether they were epically foolish is not up for debate.
Far from being railroaded, the man is finally being brought to answer for the actions of that night. He is being forced to explain himself in court of law. That accounting only happened because enormous pressure was brought upon the State of Florida. That only happend because Martin’s parents would not let local law enforcement just shrug its shoulders when they demanded an accounting.
If Zimmerman is convicted of crime, a big if with such a murky and poorly investigated incident, it will because the jury has made the decision required by the law, and beyond a reasonable doubt. Beyond reasonable doubt is fairly high bar and Zimmerman seems to have a good defense team; they don’t look like they are about to lie down for anybody., so I doubt Zimmerman will be “railroaded.”
I’m not letting either side default to “we was robbed” RR. If Zimmerman is set loose, that will be the end of the criminal case. If Zimmerman is convicted of 2nd degree, or a lesser offense that will also be the end of the criminal case. Let the system do what it will do. Let real lawyers hash this out. Let real evidence be shown. Let the chips fall where they may. The case needs to go to trial, a full trial, for all our sakes, and for Zimmerman’s most of all.
Spin, I will concede that I shouldn’t have used railroaded. I won’t concede that Zimmerman acted foolishly. He lived on the property. He had every right to be on any square inch of any of its common areas.
“I won’t concede that Zimmerman acted foolishly. He lived on the property. He had every right to be on any square inch of any of its common areas.”
Just like Trayvon did.
Yes, Sec, no argument from me there, but if Zimmerman’s story pans out, then Trayvon broke the law and foolishly put his life in danger by physically assaulting another person.
Physically assaulting another person is thuggish behavior, and as I have said before, if you act like and dress like a thug, odds are higher that you will die like a thug.
a man carrying a weapon pursues and an unarmed boy. the boy is ‘Shot to Death’! dead man claims he was assaulted. interesting…
trayvon, “dad a strange man was following me”, “so i punched him in the face”. father, “good son. he deserved it!”
is it very possible that conversation would have taken place. had zimmerman not had a gun. how many of us would have responded like the father, hmmm?
was the 17 year old commiting a crime! no. was the 17 year old following the man! no. did not the boy have a right to stand his ground!
A 17-year old boy doubles back and jumps a man who was following him, knocking the man to the ground. The boy commences to pummel the man in the face and slam his head against the sidewalk. The man goes unconscious from the blunt force trauma to his occipital lobe.
John, a neighbor, has witnessed the whole thing and called the police. Police arrive and arrest the young man as paramedics arrive to take the injured man to the nearest level 5 trauma center. The man never regains consciousness.
When the boy’s father arrives at the jail the next morning, do you think he says, “Good, son. He deserved it.”
Sorry RR….your statements are hypocritical bullshit…First you say know one knows what “Really” happened and that we should wait for the case to go to trial….then you say, of course in defense of the indefensible, that “A 17-year old boy doubles back and jumps a man who was following him, knocking the man to the ground.” I don’t believe a word that Zimmerman said because his story has changed so many times…and I’m still waiting for pictures of the broken nose……Some of you who have commented on this story have been relentless in the defense of the indefensible…especially you RR. You should be ashamed… If someone shot your child while they were unarmed and walking home…wouldn’t you be pissed if some jackass (and I do mean you)…post after post how its you’re (the victims) because blacks are criminals?
EGGxactly. But he is not ashamed, he really thinks THOSE people are like that and should all be viewed with alarm and fear.
Not all of them, Sec. Only the thugs.
Can you provide examples of how Zimmerman’s story has changed?
I was also wondering the same thing. The prosecutor hinted at this in the bond hearing, but I have not read anything yet indicating that Zimmerman’s story has changed.. However, future hearings or trials may prove otherwise. As I keep stating, I will let the justice system run its course before I judge.
Whitepaw, it was a strange charge for dafederalist to throw out without a shred of proof. Not one citation.
Not for us to provide examples of Zimmerman’s changing story, it is up to the Prosecutor. No one that particular piece of the puzzle other than the Prosecutor and the Defense.
Sidebar:
Plenty of reason for Zimmerman to change the story, and many of them are not criminal, nor even evasive. Fear / adrenaline really scrambles the thinking process. Zimmerman may have actually recalled something once the adrenaline dissipated and told Police about it later.
The worst evidence in most criminal cases is the eye witness testimony. It’s ironic, but Zimmerman’s recollection of the events is the worst place to start in discerning what happened; even if he is being totally truthful.
Exactly right, Spin, but there are no examples in the public record so far of Zimmerman changing his story. That’s all I was trying to point out to dafederalista. There is no point in making things up. There will be plenty to fuss over later.
hypothetical as well… I think you intended it to be so based upon thoreau’s post above.
But let us not kid ourselves here… It is a tragedy… what happened, Trayvon Martin losing his life. This is a very complicated situation and we do need to find a way to resolve this so it does not happen again. I am not convinced that Zimmerman is guilty by any means, nor am I convinced that he racially profiled… I just do not know………..
Whitepaw, yep, my scenario was to make the point that it could have turned out another way.
Of course, it was a tragedy. On that, we all agree. It was a tragedy for Trayvon and his family, and it was a tragedy for George Zimmerman and his family. It was also a tragedy that those charlatans Sharpton and Jackson came in to fan flames on something they didn’t have all the facts on. Par for the course for Sharpton especially.
Oh the bonfire was going great, even before those two came to warm their hands in the heat. The kindling was all around, just waiting for a match to fall. Stand Your Ground is a crappy law, and it was only a matter of time before it set off a firestorm.
Might want to do a little brushing up on anatomy before you try conjuring scary images to wow the folks. You would not go unconscious from “the blunt force trauma to his occipital lobe.”
You might go blind but not unconscious…..and by the way, which lobe was traumatized by the blunt force? You have two of them, that’s why they are the Occipital LOBES.
Stand Your Ground has nothing to do with your being able to assault a person because he is following you. To assault a man who you think is following you is thuggish behavior.
It appears some think that if you just post enough racist male bovine fecal matter enough time it gains credibility.
No, Sec, it’s more about posting clear observations instead of going all apoplectic about everything.
SEC… Just stop with the B F M posts….. This issue is more complicated than your gut instincts tell you.
A tragendy occurred… a young and beautiful man died… Certainly a tragedy…………extremely sad and heartbreaking.
With that said, the incredible media uproar over this may have resulted in a picture that is not telling the truth (and I stress the word “MAY”).
I will say again, we just need to wait for the evidence. I know so many on this board do not appreciate my views on this….. so be it. I do believe in innocent until proven guilty.
Were it not for the uproar nothing would have been done.
As for the male bovine fecal matter when it smells like shit, and looks like shit and draws flies like shit….I’m gonna call it male bovine fecal matter.
Sec, you just don’t know that.
Stand Your Ground give licence to Vigilanteism. It give license to marginal caricatures inking they can take on the color of law. It remove a restraint, it opens up loopholes. It is bad law.
Oh, and depending on the situation I could see need to get confrontational with a man who persist in following me. I could see that confrontation becoming physical. I would not choose physical violence as my fist option; that would be “thuggish” but if needs be, with all other options exhausted, I gotta do what I gotta do.
Hypothetical.
nd here’s the money shot “There was no action by Trayvon Martin to warrant George Zimmerman tailing him, let alone pulling the trigger and ending his life.”
Except for the fact that Trayvon was a young Black male.
Unless Zimmerman’s story is true. If so, Trayvon decked him, was banging his head, and there was a struggle for the gun. The evidence so far sure does seem to support that.
How about you suspend disbelief just for a couple of moments, Sec? Just try. If true, what was Zimmerman to do? Let Trayvon get to the gun first?
“The evidence so far sure does seem to support that.”
The ONLY marks or damage to Trayvon’s body was the gun shot according to the mortician who prepared the body for burial.
“Trayvon decked him,” ever punch anyone in the face? I have, does a number on your knuckles.
The mortician? Really? And no, I have never decked anyone. I am not prone to violence. Your having done so explains a lot.
It explains that he was in a situation where violence was the only option he felt he had. Count your blessings that you never had be in such a situation. Had your Air Force career gone in a different way, who knows, you may have had to go hand-to-hand against an enemy combatant. I am always grateful that I never had to fire a weapon in anger; but if my Naval career had gone somewhere else I could have been in the thick of it with the Marines; and only armed with a sidearm.
Yes “The mortician? Really?” and not just “The mortician? Really? ” but a mortician who serves the Black community, who has examined and had to make suitable for viewing many, many young Black males who met violent ends. So someone who is FAR to familiar with what violence does to the human body. And there were, other then the hole Zimmerman blasted in him, NO signs of violence.
As for “I have never decked anyone. I am not prone to violence. Your having done so explains a lot.”
That as well as your very limpwithnoballs/repugnantklaner/teabagger mantra regarding those “arrogant, offensive etc. etc.” young Black males says more then enough about you.
Sec, are you drinking again?
And what evidence is there that we know of that anything was done to Trayvon because he was a young, black male? I’ll answer. Zero! Zip! Nada! None!
Uh, cause he’s like…kinda dead an stuff.
What does that answer even mean, Sec?
And I absolutely agree. Property tax is a stupid, unfair way to pay for schools.
YES! I agree with both SEC and RR in this respect!!!
Woohoo! Drink up!
How about we fully fund education and pay our taxes….this is the type of shit i’m talking about! Everyone complains about taxes and big government except when an EF5 tornado wipes a town away in seconds or your house is on fire or someone is burglarizing your neighborhood or a Category 5 hurricane is churning in the gulf…..No one complains when Big government is there to help rebuild the school or send in the National Guard to evacuate….No one complains about taxes when firemen are rushing into homes etc….and as for as a link….I’ll provide a link when you can show me a picture of George Zimmerman’s broken nose….
OT — But great thread for tomorrow based upon posts above might be charter schools.. and vouchers… vs. public schools… Just a thought (to lower our respective blood pressures)…
Ha! whitepaw! I can get pretty exercised on the topic.
RR~ I will answer your question with a question name a Democrat who speaks out on the subject of poverty?
Um, no. You made an unsubstantiated, ridiculous claim, and now I expect you to back it up … if you can. You specifically said there have been times in recent history when [Sharpton and Jackson] were the only ones out there taking about poverty and justice.
Now I would like for you to give me examples when they were the only two people out there talking about poverty and justice. Only Sharpton and Jackson and nobody else. That is what you said.
So get a good night’s sleep and let us know in the morning.
Example 1……My nose was broken….
Video 1….http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/george-zimmerman-police-surveillance-16024475
Now when you wake up from your permanent dream state…you can provide that link for that broken nose…..that worry…I’ll WAIT!
Dafederalist, did you watch the bail hearing? O’Mara gave the prosecution the medical record for Zimmerman’s nose. Handed it to him right there.
Now do you have anything else?
there iis an I phone pic of the back of the head but where is the broken nose pic….link please….thank you
Dafederalist, I will repeat: did you watch the bail hearing? O’Mara gave the prosecution the medical record for Zimmerman’s nose. Handed it to him right there.
Wow, you really are learning from your conSERvative sources there. Now you channel OLielly!
Now what are you talking about, Sec? Have you started drinking so early in the day?
I am up way past my bedtime…nite all~
G`night and sleep tight!
…………from the west coast! 
Maybe if we had more police in the streets we wouldn’t have a need for emotionally unstable individuals playing cop!
Maybe if we had more police in the streets we wouldn’t have a need for emotionally unstable individuals playing cop!
Give that dafederalist a big cigar and cupi doll; we have a winner!
Yes to more cops, but they must be well trained and well paid cops. It sure seems the bar has been lowered for a while now.
You have nothing to support either of those charges. Nothing.
How mant times did he call the police again….46
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/2700249/trayvon-martin-shooter-a-habitual.html
Maybe its time to move if you have to call the police 46 times……….
RR…you wont win this one….and iII’m still waiting for that picture of Zimmermans nose!
Wanna bet?
RR and WP…..monitor your news sources over this weekend. Today is the the 2 week deadline for Corey to cough up all this earth-shattering evidence of Zimmerman guilty of a depraved heart murder. While both defense and prosecution have agreed to a sealing, the bench comments at the time suggest to me this may well be released to the press (with certain redactions of witness addresses and such).
If released, my bet is the “evidence” will be nothing more than the same weak tea we’ve been given to drink already by the esteemed plaintiffs bar appearing here.
Isolated items that do not “prove” anything unlawful by themselves, but will be woven into the same narrative you have read for 30 days right here..merely leaving the truck, merely carrying a weapon, merely uttering excasperations
Thanks Hal — I will be interested to see how this evolves …
OK, now how do you two know each other?
Gosh RR, you and casualobserver like two peas in a pod?
Two nuts in a shell.
Two realists. You’ll see.
Listen to the Martin family attorney talk about the truf.
1.SO, Zimmerman CLEARLY lied at his bail hearing.
2″In the call, Zimmerman said he was following Martin after the teen started to run, prompting the dispatcher to tell him, “We don’t need you to do that.” Zimmerman pursued Martin anyway but then said he lost sight of him.”
Excuse me…but weren’t a couple of folks here going on about how there was NO proof Zimmerman continued to follow Traynon after the dispatcher told him not to?
3.”According to an Orlando Sentinel story later confirmed by Sanford police, Zimmerman told authorities that after he briefly lost track of Martin, the teen approached him. After the two exchanged words, Zimmerman said, he reached for his cell phone, and then Martin punched him in the nose. ”
SO, let me see if I have this straight….Zimmerman was stalking this kid…with NO reason other then he is a young Black man…CONTINUED to after the dispatcher told him not to and THEN when the kid has balls enough to confront him reaches for something…in the dark and the kid tags him? Is that right? Gee, seems COPS are likely to shot a Black male about 28 or 40 times when they do something like that. They, armed cops that is, consider someone reaching into their pockets or behind them threat enough to use DEADLY force in a confrontation..
Then add to that RR’s racist lil “truf” he just can’t resist.
I would have punched this cop wannabee in the face under those circumstances.
And you would have ended up dead. Just like Trayvon. Behave like a thug, and die like a thug. Physical assault is thug behavior.
Most of the thugs you see hanging about all day every day in many cities around the country? What will they ever contribute to society other than a dozen little mini-representations of themselves? Nothing. They are a menace.
“And you would have ended up dead. Just like Trayvon. Behave like a thug, and die like a thug. Physical assault is thug behavior.”
No Ricky, I would most likely not. I play for keeps and if I figure violence is necessary so far anyway the best the moron can expect is a nice trip to the emergency room. And incidentally clueless, that is called DEFENDING YOURSELF. HE made a move that cops would construe as aggressive…he pays the piper.
Offering yourself up as po widdle victim is punk behavior.
“Most of the thugs you see hanging about all day every day in many cities around the country? What will they ever contribute to society other than a dozen little mini-representations of themselves? Nothing. They are a menace.”
Oh how very, very white boy of you!! But you have to work on it…you should have said something like they are so URBAN.
As you say, Zimmerman was defending himself. You will have to own up to that. I wonder if you are man enough to do that when the time arrives.
I will be here laughing at your small mind.
“As you say, Zimmerman was defending himself. ”
THAT’S your problem, you have a basic inability to read and comprehend simple concepts.
Y’know, Sec, there is nothing funny about this whole sordid mess, but I have to say. When the evidence comes out and your whole crazy … and I mean batshit crazy … comes apart at the seams, I am going to have myself a royal, full-throated, belly laugh at your expense. Even then I doubt you will be forthright enough to say that you were wrong. Instead you will say something insane about repug-a-this or teabag-a-that, and the rest of us will just shake our heads.
You are right. At first it was kinda funny watching you expose yourself as the scared lil racist that you are inside.
But then it became pathetic.
Well, let’s just see how it all turns out. Will you come back to admit that you were wrong? Will you?
You are a weak, weak mind to have to keep falling back on the racist charge. You should be ashamed of yourself, and perhaps one day soon you will be.
Always fall back on the truth. If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck and all that.
But i don’t quack and have never walked funny.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/04/27/1086918/-George-Zimmerman-Right-Wing-American-Jesus-Martyr-and-Mascot-for-Post-Racial-America
Sums it up quite nicely.
Yes, it does sum it up nicely … for your narrative. Sadly, the piece does not reflect the truth. The author, like too many others in media, is using this tragic story to gin up people about racism in America, but until the race pimps Sharpton and Jackson started a circus, this was not about race. Now it is about race, and the race pimps will rue the day they made it about race.
Here are three select quotes from the piece. They are telling.
And as you echo the repugnantklan/teabagger buzz words you clearly indicate where you fit into it.
Yes, I fit in with sane people who have eyes wide open.
Nice to know you think the repugnantklaners/teabaggers are the sane one. Old news for anyone who has read all of you contributions….but nice of you to finally admit it.
This summarizes exactly my views of the Zimmerman Martin situation at this time.. A very good read:
http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/local/courier_times_news/opinion/oped/pundits-are-far-from-experts-in-martin-zimmerman-case/article_79f01e8d-e5cf-5908-87cf-ec12e083a87b.html
If you toss out the first and last paragraph I would agree it’s not a bad recitation of the situation with one or two wrong staements.
NO ONE to my knowledge anyway has tried to say it was “cold blooded murder”
As to how he caught up to Trayvon…till the very end he was driving a vehicle.
Sharpton is on cable as a talking head, NOT a journalist or reporter.
SEC — As far as the last paragraph, there is currently no evidence at all about who threw the first punch, who confronted whom, and nothing to contradict Zimmerman’s statement that he was returning to this car when he met Martin. This is in testimony from one of the lead investigators… under oath. If there is a trial, perhaps there will be evidence to refute what I stated above, but at this time, this is where it stands based upon testimony in court.
The first paragraph is conjecture, true. Some see it as a logical argument, some will not.
I still think Sharpton is very guilty of misleading …(true journalist or not… and for this he and MSNBC should be ashamed)… he spread many rumors, and once they were found to be untrue, he NEVER corrected his mischaracterization of the investigation… NEVER. I heard Sharpton state that Zimmerman did not live in the complex, but Trayvon did, so Zimmerman was guilty of tresspassing on the property… I heard him state that the investigators let Zimmerman leave the crime scene with all his clothes and his gun, that he was never brought in for questioning, I heard Sharpton state repeatedly that Trayvon’s parents were not told for days of his death and they just left the body in the morgue… that all they did was do drug tests on Trayvon, when in fact they kept the body for three days in order to complete the medical examiner’s investigation, and that Trayvon’s parents were notified of his death the morning after his death. Not once have I heard Al Sharpton correct what he stated.
Sharpton may very well have repeated rumors, don’t watch him but if he did he is just as guilty as any of the Faux Not News crowd with their over blown hyperbole.
As for the first para being what some see as a logical argument…so it is also logical then that a teen who was worried enough to call his girlfriend and tell her that someone was following hin and worried enough to attempt to lose that person would then go back after them if they started to leave? No, that is nonsense.
SEC… Two wrongs do not make a right…. Complaining about FOX news to somehow make is seem OK, what Sharpton has been doing, is not right in my book. Oh… no biggie… FOX does it too? Not a very good argument.
As far as the phone call….. The girlfriend called Trayvon according to phone records…. Trayvon did not call the girl. This may be a moot point, but frankly, this is the type of stuff that drives me nuts about the inaccurate stories floating around out there that have not been proven to be factual with evidence at all.
Also, forgot to mention Sharpton and his claim that Zimmerman was 100lbs heavier than Martin, the shameless way that for over a month the media outlets portrayed Zimmerman as this much heavier person in photos from 7 years ago, and Martin as a 12-14 year old, or younger in many cases. I am still not claiming that I know in any way, shape, or form what truly transpired that night, but the media has certainly done an incredible job of manipulating the way many see things.
So many do not follow this case and others…They just see or hear snippets of information from biased media sources that have no real interest in getting the story right…. only in ratings and the BIG STORY. And in Al Sharpton’s case, furthering his own agenda.
Sec, telling Whitepaw not to watch Sharpton is not enough. She did watch him and was appalled and feels a civic duty to expose the harm he has done. You should join her, regardless of your different thinking in the Trayvon matter.
Careful there, Whitepaw. If you draw conclusions based on dispassionate, careful observation and reading, you may be branded a racist.
Now, I’m not going to be politically correct. I am going to say it like I see it. Trayvon was hunted down like a rabid dog. He was shot in the street. He was racially profiled. —REP. FREDERICA WILSON (D), FLORIDA
Funny, reading that I don’t see the words cold blooded or murder anywhere?
OK, now you are just parsing. If being accused of hunting another human as if he were a rabid dog and shooting him in the street isn’t being called a cold blooded murderer, I don’t know what is.
Sec, face it. You are on the losing end of this entire argument because you and many others jumped the gun in the beginning. You are going to look very foolish. I know this, and you know this.
Be prepared to say you were wrong, but I don’t think you have it in you.
Trayvon caught up with Zimmerman, not the other way around. I am man enough to admit I am wrong if the evidence shows it. Are you, Sec?
?You were there? You are a surprise witness? Are you going to get a new suite for the trial?
I believe Zimmerman.
Whitepaw, I just read the article you linked to, and it makes immense sense. Of course, those who insist that Zimmerman is a wild-eyed racist murderer will continue to put their fingers in their ears and say lalalalalalalalalalala – I can’t heeeaaar you!
I thought it made a lot of sense as well, but we will know more when the evidence comes out.
I still think that it is odd that Zimmerman was charged with 2nd degree murder, unless the prosecution has much more than we currently know.
Link about important evidence that may soon be made public after the prosecution turns it over to the defense:
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-28/news/os-george-zimmerman-evidence-trayvon-20120428_1_special-prosecutor-angela-corey-evidence-police-headquarters
I agree, Ogenec, that there is a place for private schools, but I also believe they should be free of public funding, and that includes charter schools that discriminate – turning away students whose test scores make them look bad or students who have challenging needs – something public schools are not allowed to do. It is a fairly simple thing to do; mandate that charters are subject to the same laws as public schools in terms of student enrollment/maintenance. That is the only true way of knowing if experimental innovations and interventions work with varying student cohorts. Even Geoffrey Canada kicked out a group of 8th graders whose test scores were low and made his school look bad – they weren’t allowed to continue at his school.
Special Prosecutor, Angela Corey, missed deadline to release evidence in Zimmerman Martin case.
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Lawyer-Angela-Corey-missed-deadline-to-release-evidence/-/1637132/12190668/-/g2ilu2/-/
Bill Cosby Pound Cake Speech