Top Menu

Follow Taylor on Twitter

Obama Can’t Do “Jedi Mind Meld” So We’re Obviously Screwed [Remarks - Video]

obama_jedi_whitehouse

“I know that this has been some of the conventional wisdom that’s been floating around Washington: That somehow, even though most people agree that I’m being reasonable, that most people agree that I’m presenting a fair deal — the fact that they don’t take it, means that I should somehow do a Jedi mindmeld with these folks and convince them to do what’s right. Well, they’re elected. We have a constitutional system of government.” – President Obama

PRESIDENT OBAMA made clear in his weekly address where the fault of the $85 billion sequester cuts belongs.

Obama bluntly stated today that “it’s because Republicans in Congress chose this outcome over closing a single wasteful tax loophole that helps reduce the deficit. Just this week, they decided that protecting special interest tax breaks for the well-off and well-connected is more important than protecting our military and middle-class families from these cut.”

Until Republicans quit playing games with things like the Violence Against Women Act, which 22 Republican senators voted against, and caused a near mutiny in the House over the extremists Republicans there, we’re going to see further games that hit middle class families, the military, and people among the 99% simply trying to pay their bills.

Remarks of President Barack Obama Weekly Address
The White House
March 2, 2013

Hi, everybody. On Friday, I met with leaders of both parties in Congress to try and find a way forward in light of the severe budget cuts — known in Washington as “the sequester” — that have already started to inflict pain on communities across the country.

These cuts are not smart. They will hurt our economy and cost us jobs. And Congress can turn them off at any time — as soon as both sides are willing to compromise.

As a nation, we’ve already fought back from the worst economic crisis of our lifetimes, and we’ll get through this, too. But at a time when our businesses are finally gaining some traction, hiring new workers, bringing jobs back to America — the last thing Washington should do is to get in their way. That’s what these cuts to education, research, and defense will do. It’s unnecessary. And at a time when too many of our friends and neighbors are still looking for work, it’s inexcusable.

Now, it’s important to understand that, while not everyone will feel the pain of these cuts right away, the pain will be real. Many middle-class families will have their lives disrupted in a significant way.

Beginning this week, businesses that work with the military will have to lay folks off. Communities near military bases will take a serious blow. Hundreds of thousands of Americans who serve their country — Border Patrol agents, FBI agents, civilians who work for the Defense Department — will see their wages cut and their hours reduced.

This will cause a ripple effect across the economy. Businesses will suffer because customers will have less money to spend. The longer these cuts remain in place, the greater the damage. Economists estimate they could eventually cost us more than 750,000 jobs and slow our economy by over one-half of one percent.

Here’s the thing: none of this is necessary. It’s happening because Republicans in Congress chose this outcome over closing a single wasteful tax loophole that helps reduce the deficit. Just this week, they decided that protecting special interest tax breaks for the well-off and well-connected is more important than protecting our military and middle-class families from these cuts.

I still believe we can and must replace these cuts with a balanced approach — one that combines smart spending cuts with entitlement reform and changes to our tax code that make it more fair for families and businesses without raising anyone’s tax rates. That’s how we can reduce our deficit without laying off workers, or forcing parents and students to pay the price. I don’t think that’s too much to ask. It’s the kind of approach I’ve proposed for two years now. A majority of the American people agree with me on this approach — including a majority of Republicans. We just need Republicans in Congress to catch up with their own party and the rest of the country.

Now, I know there are Republicans in Congress who would actually rather see tax loopholes closed than let these cuts go through. And I know there are Democrats who’d rather do smart entitlement reform than let these cuts go through. There’s a caucus of common sense. And I’m going to keep reaching out to them to fix this for good.

Because the American people are weary of perpetual partisanship and brinksmanship. This is America, and in America, we don’t careen from one manufactured crisis to another. We make smart choices. We plan. We prioritize. So I’m going to push through this paralysis and keep fighting for the real challenges facing middle-class families. I’m going to keep pushing for high-quality preschool for every family that wants it, and make sure the minimum wage becomes a wage you can live on. I’m going to keep pushing to fix our immigration system, repair our transportation system, and keep our children safe from gun violence.

That’s the work you elected me to do. That’s what I’m focused on every single day. Thanks.

, , , , , , , , , , , ,

44 Responses to Obama Can’t Do “Jedi Mind Meld” So We’re Obviously Screwed [Remarks - Video]

  1. secularhumanizinevoluter March 2, 2013 at 11:22 am #

    I think it says volumes about the Main Stream Media of the absurd that President Obama flubbing a SciFi reference is a story and not the reality of the point he was making.

  2. DaGoat March 2, 2013 at 11:30 am #

    I actually agree with sec on this one. It’s another example of how the media focuses on gotcha stories instead of substance.

    On the article I think both sides are getting what they want – the GOP is getting cuts and Obama has a political winner blaming it on Republicans.

    • Solo March 2, 2013 at 3:47 pm #

      Both sides are getting want they want? Really? You really think President Obama wanted Dems not to show up to vote in the 2010 midterm leaving him to deal with a Tea Party dominated House that he is constitutionally required to deal with? This country’s wallet is in the pocket of the Tea party and that is a reality the President has to deal with.

      • DaGoat March 2, 2013 at 4:41 pm #

        I’m saying Obama is getting what he wants in the current sequester battle, not that he has gotten every thing he has wanted throughout history.

  3. secularhumanizinevoluter March 2, 2013 at 11:34 am #

    GASP…clutching ma pearls and swaying on the verge of a swoon…..

  4. fangio March 2, 2013 at 1:05 pm #

    ” These cuts are not smart. ” No there not, but there his cuts. Rather than focus them on the military as was done in a similar situation a long time ago he chose to spread them around to the people who can least afford them.

    ” It’s happening because republicans chose this outcome over closing a single wasteful tax loophole. ” No! It’s happening because he made it happen it was his stupid idea.

    ” We have a constitutional government. ” Not any more. He has the nerve to talk about constitutional government after Simpson/Bowles.

    ” Entitlement reform. ” There it is, the emperor with no clothes. Facebook makes billions and pays no taxes and he continues to shuffle around blathering about entitlement reform.

    The republicans called his bluff and we will be the losers, we will be the victims of his ineptitude and laziness. He is the worst president at the worst possible time.

    • jinbaltimore March 2, 2013 at 2:27 pm #

      Prediction: At some point Obama is going to say he will veto any bill that doesn’t include “entitlement reform.”

      • Cujo359 March 2, 2013 at 3:19 pm #

        The only reason you might lose that bet is because “entitlement reform” appears to be a given. The Progressive Caucus is the only one that seems to be against it, which is to say that there is no group of congressmen who are against it who will actually vote against it.

    • Solo March 2, 2013 at 3:24 pm #

      Do you really believe that all the turmoil that has happened since the GOP took over the House in January 2011 would have happened if Nancy Pelosi had stayed Speaker? Do you really think the sequester happened in a vacuum? Is your memory really that short? I won’t even comment on your use of the word “lazy” to describe President Obama!

      • Cujo359 March 2, 2013 at 3:41 pm #

        No, I don’t, but then I don’t believe that if she were Speaker right now and Mitt Romney were President that she would be offering any resistance, either. Any Speaker who would unilaterally take impeachment “off the table” is clearly not interested in exercising political power for any purpose besides acquiring more.

        The Republicans, at least, understand the role of a political opposition. What they stand for is absurd and in some cases despicable, but they’re willing to stand for it. That’s why they’re winning.

        • Solo March 2, 2013 at 4:13 pm #

          Wow! You think their winning? Have you seen the polls lately? They are not winning they are obstructing, they are destroying! People like you don’t seem to get that building something better moving forward takes longer and requires more effort. What the GOP tries to do doesn’t! When your only goal is destruction well then the bar you you is much lower. The House is under the control of a suicide squad who think they were sent to DC to blow the place up.

          • Cujo359 March 2, 2013 at 4:20 pm #

            They’re getting what they want. To me, that’s winning in politics. You clearly think it’s just a game, but the reason politics exist is to shape a society, not to see who has the most seats in Congress.

          • Solo March 2, 2013 at 4:56 pm #

            Cujo359: Game? I take my politics seriously! This is no game, this is deadly serious. There is a fundamental flaw in your logic. How many seats your side has in Congress absolutely matters. You have to win the argument which enables you to win the politics which in turn enables you to make the societal changes you seek!

          • Cujo359 March 2, 2013 at 5:03 pm #

            No, it doesn’t matter. For starters, neither is “my” side. Neither represents the interests of me or most people in this country. Beyond that, though, how you use the power you have is as important as having it. As I wrote about Nancy Pelosi, when you refuse to use your power to help both your party and your country, if you have that power it doesn’t matter.

            That’s why the Democrats no longer have power in the House. They refused to use it to make a difference when they could. Now they can’t.

            The score doesn’t matter here. It’s only who gets what he wants. On economics issues and some social issues the GOP is getting what its supporters want. They’re winning. Progressives aren’t. Progressives just aren’t smart enough to figure that out.

          • Solo March 2, 2013 at 5:30 pm #

            Cujo359: That glass is half empty thing you got going on gets progressives absolutely nowhere!

    • Solo March 2, 2013 at 3:35 pm #

      Your choice of the word “lazy” to describe this President invalidates everything else you said in that post because we now know where your opinion of the man is coming from. For the record this President has taken fewer vacation days than any recent President but are facts to a person such as yourself?

      • jinbaltimore March 3, 2013 at 7:26 am #

        silly

  5. Cujo359 March 2, 2013 at 3:31 pm #

    the fact that they don’t take it, means that I should somehow do a Jedi mindmeld with these folks and convince them to do what’s right.

    Well, Doctor Who fans know that once a door is opened may be stepped through in either direction, and anyone who can make you think things can make you forget that effort ever happened.

    IOW, I think President Fierce Advocate mind melded with the Republicans a long time ago. That experiment went well for him, but not so well for the rest of us.

  6. jinbaltimore March 2, 2013 at 6:59 pm #

    Only just realized that President Obama actually had the nerve to say this,
    “We have a constitutional system of government.”

    There are a few thousand race-based killings that prove otherwise.

  7. jjamele March 2, 2013 at 9:25 pm #

    For those of you keeping score at home-

    Obama flubbing a SciFi reference=silly, stupid non-story which just demonstates how anxious some people are to find a “gotcha” moment against a politician they dislike.

    Marco Rubio reaching for a glass of water= hilarious fail and evidence that he could never be President of the United States. Legitimately snarkable.

    Ah, partisan hypocrisy. Gotta love it, because hey, it’s clearly here to stay.

    • secularhumanizinevoluter March 3, 2013 at 6:31 am #

      “For those of you keeping score at home-

      Obama flubbing a SciFi reference=silly, stupid non-story which just demonstates how anxious some people are to find a “gotcha” moment against a politician they dislike.

      Marco Rubio reaching for a glass of water= hilarious fail and evidence that he could never be President of the United States. Legitimately snarkable.

      Ah, partisan hypocrisy. Gotta love it, because hey, it’s clearly here to stay.”

      For those of you keeping score false equivalency once again used as in ‘they both do it” or “there isn’t any difference between the parties”

      Ah hypocrisy. Gotta love it, because hey, it’s clearly here to stay.

      • jjamele March 3, 2013 at 7:38 am #

        Aaaaannnd Secular swings and misses yet ANOTHER point! Maybe if you close your eyes, you’ll have better luck!

        Seriously, buddy- “false equivalency?” “There really IS a Jedi Mind Meld?” This is what you’ve got?

    • jinbaltimore March 3, 2013 at 6:58 am #

      But but but…hey, you’re not looking out for the tribe :)

      • jjamele March 3, 2013 at 8:19 am #

        “For those of you keeping score false equivalency once again used as in ‘they both do it” or “there isn’t any difference between the parties”– Secular

        The Nobel Prize to anyone here who can find such a notion anywhere in my post. Seriously, Sec, it’s ok for you to just not respond when you have nothing of value to add.

        • Cujo359 March 3, 2013 at 2:04 pm #

          Seriously, Sec, it’s ok for you to just not respond when you have nothing of value to add.

          I get the feeling he thrives on that sort of challenge.

      • newdealdem1 March 3, 2013 at 3:57 pm #

        Before I comment, let me reiterate, I didn’t vote for Obama for either term. I’m a Hillary Clinton supporter, have been for a very long time. She was even my Senator. Also, I am as critical of Obama as anyone here for his easy forfeiture of the social safety net in the so-called Grand Bargain or any bargain he settles with the GOP. But, I am still a Democrat. I feel like saying that here is like coming out of the closet all over again. :)

        That said:

        jinbaltimore, a couple of days ago in this thread http://tinyurl.com/c7lrmgu you dissed people for “piling on” Woodward. I found that comment a bit curious, but in more than one way can be a symptom of your anti-Obama stance which is fine but I found your “scold” (again) curious because I don’t think it’s too far a stretch for someone to “scold” you for “piling on” on Obama. Which, btw, you have every right to do. I just found it a pot/kettle thingy. :)

        And, as far as the tribes go, with all due respect (and I mean that) it’s also not a far stretch to conclude that you, Cujo, fangio and jjamele are just as tribal as those you continually chide about their memberships.

        We all belong to tribes. The “anti-Obama, both-party’s-are-the-same, there-is-no-hope-left-but-to-vote-third-party” (and who can’t see the other person’s side) people are just as much in a tribe as the rest of us, my friend.

        Not all but quiet of few of those in your tribe present yourselves as riding in on horses higher than the rest of us which is annoying beyond most people’s patience. Well, at least beyond my patience. (I remember the 2008 Dem primary when the Obama bots did the same thing to Hillary supporters which I’ll never forget.) And, I’m a willing listener and very open to agreement with some of your tribes notions. But, it’s your superior attitudes and preachy diatribes that rouse people to react negatively or don’t respond to you at all.

        That’s not to say I don’t have issues with Solo either. He’s just on the opposite coin of your tribe. Anyone who never criticizes any individual politician for anything makes it difficult for others to take them seriously: to give them a full hearing. But, the same can be said for those who never have anything constructively positive to say about an individual politician either. Nothing is ever so absolutely, well, absolute.

        So, there’s my own preachy sermon for this fine Sunday from my own tribal perch. :) ;)

        No harm, no foul. Just my own puny observation. Back to my perch. :)

        • ogenec March 3, 2013 at 4:52 pm #

          newdealdem1: Since Star Trek references are de rigueur, permit me to decloak and thank you from the bottom of my heart from this post. Thank you a million times over.

        • jinbaltimore March 3, 2013 at 5:29 pm #

          With all due respect returned, going to have to disagree on a couple of things.

          Can’t speak for the others you mention, but, for me, it’s about the policies and positions as opposed to personalities. If Paul Krugman suddenly changed his tune and started preaching austerity, I would no longer think him wise. I was a Hillary supporter in 08 too, but, if she decides to run in 2016, I’d have to hear an update from her on a variety of issues (e.g. drones) before supporting her again.

          Also, the tribal argument you make is one of false equivalency. If there is a “tribe” of 3rd party supporters out there, it has little to no voice in the media yet and certainly isn’t funded by Wall Street as are the other two.

          I have praised Obama at least twice that I know of, once for speaking out in favor of gay marriage before the last election and again, recently, for his remarks about football. But, yes, for the most part, I find his policies and positions to be republican in nature, and, as I opposed them under Bush, will continue to do so under Obama. It’s really a simple consistency.

          • newdealdem1 March 3, 2013 at 7:34 pm #

            “Also, the tribal argument you make is one of false equivalency. If there is a “tribe” of 3rd party supporters out there, it has little to no voice in the media yet and certainly isn’t funded by Wall Street as are the other two.”

            Nice try. :)

            But, baloney is still baloney in a baloney sandwich. :) Being part of a tribe has nothing to do with power. Being part of a tribe is a simple thing, you identify with a group and adhere to certain customs, behaviors. On the internet, there are tribes as I’ve described above in my original comment.

            And, I never spoke about third party’s in comparison to the Dems and the GOP. Or about third party’s at all. There is no false equivalency here and even if I did speak about 3rd parties they too would part of a tribe: Green Party (mostly the environmental tribe); the Libertarians are certainly part of a tribe etc. A tribe, whether political or social, has nothing to do with power in order to exist. They are so they are.

            I’ll repeat what I said:

            The “anti-Obama, both-party’s-are-the-same, there-is-no-hope-left-but-to-vote-third-party” (and who can’t see the other person’s side) people are just as much in a tribe as the rest of us, my friend.

            That is the tribe you and some others here belong to whilst you declare yourselves free from them.

            The simple consistency is that we all belong to tribes. :)

          • jinbaltimore March 3, 2013 at 8:08 pm #

            Will have to agree to disagree what “tribal” means, then.

            If I’m reading your baloney :) correctly, the definition is met with people simply having things in common.To me, more than that is required. It’s supporting policies you once derided just because your team is now implementing them.

        • Cujo359 March 3, 2013 at 7:24 pm #

          And, as far as the tribes go, with all due respect (and I mean that) it’s also not a far stretch to conclude that you, Cujo, fangio and jjamele are just as tribal as those you continually chide about their memberships.

          Well, with all due respect, if I’m part of a tribe then you should be able to identify it, instead of just making some vague accusation. Go ahead, check my blog, check my comments here over the years, even go back and look at what I wrote at FireDogLake and Corrente.

          Oh, wait, here it is:

          We all belong to tribes. The “anti-Obama, both-party’s-are-the-same, there-is-no-hope-left-but-to-vote-third-party” (and who can’t see the other person’s side) people are just as much in a tribe as the rest of us, my friend.

          Well, my friend, that’s not a tribe at all. That’s a set (in the mathematical sense) of people who think along similar lines. I don’t know any of those other people personally. We don’t chit-chat via Twitter or e-mail. How in the world does that make us a tribe? As in, a cohesive social organization? Or do words cease to have the meaning they used to when it comes to trying to avoid seeing the obvious?

          I’m sitting here, alone by the way, wondering just what it is about the human race that makes it want to make up shit when the truth is so damned obvious. Yes, I have my predispositions and prejudices. Everyone does. What people have been trying to explain here is that what prejudices and predispositions you bring into a situation determine to a large extent what you see in them. This is particularly true, I’ve found, when it comes to interpreting the actions of others. That is so bloody obvious that it seems like the only place I have to explain it is in a forum full of progressives.

          So, go ahead and guess what tribe I belong to. If you guess right, I’ll teach you the passwords and the secret handshake. If you figure it out, leave a comment at my blog. I’m done with this conversation, because it’s another one that’s leaving me depressed at the depths of progressive cluelessness.

          • fangio March 3, 2013 at 8:11 pm #

            In my life experience I have found that individuals who use the phrase ” my friend, ” are usually backstabbing, two faced, slime balls. One more thing; tribes are all about power and control. I am not a progressive, but if I were part of a tribe opposing progressives I would do everything in my power to remove them from the face of the earth. I would then spray the planet with some sort of weed killer to keep them from growing back, my friend.

          • newdealdem1 March 3, 2013 at 8:57 pm #

            “Well, my friend, that’s not a tribe at all. That’s a set (in the mathematical sense) of people who think along similar lines”

            You can twist and shake it until until you burn it, my friend, but a tribe is a tribe is tribe. “That’s a set of people who think along similar lines” (and not a tribe according to you, Cujo): well, that IS one definition of a tribe. LOL

            What do you and others want to achieve with your posts? Do you want to encourage others and influence them to understand your rational arguments and see (and, cherry on top: agree with) your point of view? I would like to think that’s true. We all want to be understood in one way or another.

            If so, part of what I am saying is that you and others may need to find a different approach, a more amenable way to present your ideas (many with which I agree).

            This is frustrating to me given that I’m more often in agreement with your “philosophy” than not but the “superior” way you and others present yourselves oftentimes trumps what you have say, drowns out the good (and there is a lot of good). That is how it comes off to me.

            The person who doesn’t do this (with whom we both agree a lot) is Joyce (who does listen to others points of view) and who doesn’t come off as preachy or superior to others. So, it can be done.

            “I’m done with this conversation, because it’s another one that’s leaving me depressed at the depths of progressive cluelessness.”

            And,this is part of what I’m talking about. You say “I’m done with this conversation”: because all you seem to want to do is express your own POV without really listening to others just because you’re “depressed” with “the depths of progressive cluelessness” or whatever the reason or excuse And, there we go again with generalized name calling instead of trying to understand others. So, that doesn’t help. I don’t see anyone here as an enemy.

            But, I’ll say it again, even if you and others don’t want to hear it. We all belong to a tribe or tribes of one sort or another. It’s the human condition and even if there is only one in that tribe as in Walden.

    • DaGoat March 3, 2013 at 8:37 am #

      Overall I agree with the point – the focus on Obama’s “mind meld” comment and Rubio’s drink of water are both examples of the media focusing on silliness over substance. Rubio’s reaching for a glass of water doesn’t mean anything about his political potential.

      One thing I would say with Rubio though is the “water incident” showed a lack of preparation, not necessarily by Rubio but by his team. People who do a lot of public speaking know they might run into this situation and think about how they will handle it. Part of the trouble was Rubio looking so guilty getting the water. and having to reach off camera Optics have been important since Kennedy-Nixon, that’s just the way it is. The incident showed how the GOP is still playing catch-up to the Democrats when it comes to using television effectively.

      Getting away from the mind meld, I thought Obama looked a little frustrated and flustered, asking a reporter at one point if she had any suggestions what he should do. The whole point of bringing up the mind meld of course was to say that he was helpless to change the Republicans minds. I still think Clinton did much better in this sort of situation, handling the conflict with Gingrich while conveying strength. Obama’s handling of the conflict conveys weakness and helplessness.

      • jjamele March 3, 2013 at 8:55 am #

        “One thing I would say with Rubio though is the “water incident” showed a lack of preparation, not necessarily by Rubio but by his team. People who do a lot of public speaking know they might run into this situation and think about how they will handle it. Part of the trouble was Rubio looking so guilty getting the water. and having to reach off camera Optics have been important since Kennedy-Nixon, that’s just the way it is. The incident showed how the GOP is still playing catch-up to the Democrats when it comes to using television effectively.”

        Seriously, I think if you stretched your point any further, it would snap back and blind you.

        “Stupid on Camera” is in the eye of the beholder. Rubio detractors thought that the water-lunge was a visual disaster. Obama detractors thought that the Jedi Mind Meld bit was hysterically stupid and will milk it for all it’s worth (like Rubio’s “gaffe,” my guess is- not very much.) Secular stamps his foot and “points out” that hey, Obama was technically CORRECT in his statement (well, thank goodness THAT’S cleared up.) Meanwhile, life goes on here in the real world, where 99.99 percent of us couldn’t give a damn about either “incident” and wonder why we are so obsessed with the trivial.

    • Cujo359 March 3, 2013 at 2:09 pm #

      Yep, never underestimate the power of peoples’ prejudices.

  8. ladywalker68 March 3, 2013 at 1:26 am #

    Gotta agree with jjamele and Cujo here. Everything Cujo said.

    And it’s Vulcan mind meld…..oy….

    You’re right Taylor. We’re all screwed….sigh….

    • secularhumanizinevoluter March 3, 2013 at 6:34 am #

      As has been pointed out by SciFi Nerds…President Obama was CORRECT!!! There IS a Jedi mind meld.
      Not being a Sci Fi NERD but only a minor fan I was unaware of that FACT so this in fact is an even WORSE indictment of the Main Stream Media of the absurd.
      OY!!

      • Cujo359 March 3, 2013 at 2:14 pm #

        The reference is to something called a Force meld, which only appears in some of those Star Wars novels that most of have never heard of, let alone read. While it does seem to have the powers Obama was discussing, I think it’s clear that wasn’t what the President was referring to. If it had been, he and the White House could have just said so, then castigated the rest of us for our profound ignorance.

        • secularhumanizinevoluter March 3, 2013 at 8:02 pm #

          Nice to know you have mind reading abilities and can psychically know what the President thought and knew.

  9. mjsmith March 3, 2013 at 9:21 am #

    THese sequester spending cuts are a very good start. I hope we can find even more ways to cuts spending.

    • secularhumanizinevoluter March 3, 2013 at 8:03 pm #

      As the previous comments attest we are always SO happy to read your opinion…your deep, informed and thoughtful opinion.

      • jjamele March 4, 2013 at 9:50 am #

        1. Who the hell is this royal “we” you are talking about? You speak for yourself, and ONLY yourself (more often than not I would add “Thank God.”) When I want you to represent my opinion of another poster, I’ll ask you personally (don’t hold your breath.)

        2. You are the LAST poster to snark on someone’s “deep, informed, thoughtful opinion,” Mr. Republiklan/teabagger fecal matter BWAHHAHAHAHAAHHA. Jesus, talk about calling the kettle black.

        • secularhumanizinevoluter March 4, 2013 at 11:39 am #

          Re #1…Clearly and obviously you align yourself with the train of non-thought and talking point hackery I was commenting on. OF COURSE you would not be included in the “we” denoting informed, thoughtful posters. Sorry if you misunderstood and thought you were.

          Re#2…You have a problem with accurately defining the groups and quality of discourse they espouse? Interesting.
          I also recall no reference to the finish on cookware?!

.... a writer is someone who takes the universal whore of language
and turns her into a virgin again.  ~ erica jong