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ABC’s GMA Releases Photo Believed to Be Bloodied Head of George Zimmerman

“I am sorry for the loss of your son. I did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit older than I was,” Zimmerman said addressing Martin’s family directly. – ABC News

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When George Zimmerman chose to pursue Trayvon Martin, a series of events were set into motion that included a scuffle between the two men that ended in the teen’s death and Zimmerman being hit hard enough that his head became bloodied. The result is why the 911 dispatch operator specifically told George Zimmerman not to track Trayvon Martin in the first place.

In a hearing today, the judge ruled that George Zimmerman could be freed on $150,000 bond, but would be required to wear an electronic tracking device. However, Zimmerman will not be freed today, with meetings set on parameters of his bail release, including whether he can leave the state.

“Good Morning America” host Robin Roberts admitted that ABC can’t conclusively prove this photo is legitimate, but the network is sure enough to blast the photo out to their audience and stand by it.

Dan Abrams, who founded Mediaite, gave a thorough legal analysis on ABC, where he now works. Partial transcript via Mediaite:

“Even if George Zimmerman was injured in his fight,” said Abrams, “it doesn’t change the fact that the prosecutors clearly believe that Zimmerman was the aggressor. And if Zimmerman was the aggressor and they got into a fight, that doesn’t allow him to use deadly force. It simply – you can’t be losing a fight and then decide to use your gun to protect yourself.”

If Zimmerman doesn’t pursue, regardless that he was carrying a legally concealed carry weapon in a state where Stand Your Ground is the law, there is no altercation and Trayvon Martin isn’t killed.

Bill Cosby made a statement this week that this isn’t about race it’s about guns. It sounds to me like a statement from someone who doesn’t own a firearm. I say this because we do and I’ve had this debate with people who don’t.

Cosby’s statement begs the question, if Trayvon Martin was white, would George Zimmerman have followed him, suspecting something suspicious? Or are people going to once again contend it’s all about the hoodie?

This post has been updated.

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144 Responses to ABC’s GMA Releases Photo Believed to Be Bloodied Head of George Zimmerman

  1. ladywalker68 April 20, 2012 at 12:43 pm #

    I heard the “apology” on the radio a few minutes ago. A bigger pile of disingenuous cow dung I have never smelled.

    • Isis April 20, 2012 at 12:47 pm #

      I agree.

    • Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 1:37 pm #

      It wasn’t an apology. It was a statement of regret. He said he was sorry that they lost their son.

  2. Solo April 20, 2012 at 12:47 pm #

    I think people need to brace themselves for an acquittal. This guy has a history of violence both domestic and against law enforcement but get bail in a Florida court. The sad truth is lots of people in this country get away with murder, in a few months we will be able to add George Zimmerman.

    • Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 1:39 pm #

      Of course, it will be an acquittal if Zimmerman’s version of the account turns out to be the correct one. That’s as it should be. Can’t you agree with that, Solo? Can you even consider the possibility that Zimmerman has told the truth? Can you?

      • Solo April 20, 2012 at 3:37 pm #

        Is it possible? Sure. However I will wait to see what the prosecution has.

        • Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 3:51 pm #

          Thank you, Solo. That’s all I wanted from you. As I have said, if Zimmerman stalked and murdered that young man, he should be put away. Period.

          If Zimmerman is acquitted, it in no way diminishes very real concerns that many have about black boys and men being stopped and harassed for no good reason. It also doesn’t absolve young black men from pulling up their pants and acting more respectable. There is a serious problem from both ends.

          • Solo April 20, 2012 at 4:21 pm #

            And that is all I needed from you.

          • secularhumanizinevoluter April 20, 2012 at 6:50 pm #

            “It also doesn’t absolve young black men from pulling up their pants and acting more respectable. ”

            Yeah, if they just learn to be respectable and dress like RR then…aww hell, they will STILL get stopped for driving while Black, walking while Black and shot by scared lil bigots for just being while black.

          • Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 7:05 pm #

            Sec, once again, you don’t know what the fuck you are talking about. I own 3 t-shirt, 2 pairs of shorts, and one pair of jeans. They are often dirty because I don’t own a washer/dryer, but I keep them pulled up. My appearance does not frighten my neighbors, but the appearance of many of these young thugs, mostly black but not all, who go around with their asses showing, expensive hi-top shoes, and stupid over-sized thug caps, does frighten my neighbors. My neighbors are mostly black and mostly elderly. I live in Reynoldstown, a neighborhood in Atlanta. It is one of the oldest black neighborhoods in the country, originally settled by freed slaves right after the Civil War. I love my neighbors, and they love me. So shut your fucking mouth about things you don’t know anything about, and stop ascribing motives to me that I don’t have.

    • spincitysd April 20, 2012 at 1:40 pm #

      And we will watch Miami burn. If I were governor of FL I would have the National Guard ready to roll when the jury comes out with a verdict. BHO and the White House better have one damn good speech ready for the possibility of a Zimmerman acquittal.

      • Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 1:48 pm #

        Agreed. It will be mayhem.

        • T-Steel April 20, 2012 at 5:49 pm #

          I’m here in rural South Carolina and a white co-worker (I’m black) asked me is Zimmerman is acquitted, will I be heading down to Florida for the “party”. I responded:

          “Nope, I’m saving my riot skills for when Obama is re-elected. Because I absolutely hate black people. The KKK got nothing on me.”

          Ah me and my strategic wit…. Anyways, I can’t stand what Sharpton and Jackson did. There were SOOO many ways they could have turned this into a unifying situation and really gain some cool points. But true to form, they go all outrage, spit, and bluster. And that’s all the fools needs for motivation to tear stuff up, Yep President Obama better be on national television and delivering a EXTREMELY STERN message that rioters will be dealt with harshly. Heck, I would even say that deadly force will be used should the situation warrant it. That’s how serious it should be.

      • Marie205 April 20, 2012 at 2:08 pm #

        spincitysd….Why do you think their will be riots? A riot will solve nothing. And it appears the Martin family has already made pleas to not have one take place.

        Their were riots when Bill Clinton was president…nobody expected a speech from him to solve the all the racial ills of America. So, why do people assume Obama should give one. No, trail has even taken place. We still don’t know all the evidence the prosecutor has on Mr. Zimmerman.

        • Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 2:15 pm #

          There will be riots because a whole shitload of people will feel they wuz robbed after being all ginned up by Sharpton, Jackson, and irresponsible media who created a narrative that did not reflect the truth.

      • Solo April 20, 2012 at 3:41 pm #

        Please, this isn’t LA and it’s not 1992. Rioting is so passe now. Plus most African Americans and half the white people out there have so little faith in our criminal justice system that are expecting that this guy to either walk or get some ridiculously lenient sentence.

        • Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 3:52 pm #

          Or maybe he walks because he is innocent.

        • whitepaw April 20, 2012 at 3:53 pm #

          Meaning that you cannot fathom that perhaps the justice system may work and either acquit or find a reasonable sentence for the crime (if there was one according to Florida law)?

          This just proves that the media has already tried this case in the court of public opinion and no matter what the outcome, judgment has already been made.

          Hopefully there will not be riots… but predicting riots should not be a slam against any race. There were riots in Vancouver, BC a few years back when their hockey team lost in the Stanley Cup finals…. Not a racial incident at all.

          • Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 4:01 pm #

            WP, I take your point about riots, but race is such a powder keg in our country that it will blow up and feed on itself, especially in an election year to re-elect the first black president. The angry black young men will come out, and then the angry uneducated country white thugs will come out. It won’t be pretty.

            It looks as if Trayvon’s parents are aware that their reactions will be key to keeping a lid on the powder keg.

  3. Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 1:35 pm #

    The race hustlers (Tourè, Sharpton, Jackson) will be yelling We wuz robbed any second now. The analysis and opinions from TalkLeft and Prof Dershowitz seem to be spot on. The prosecution brought this case under duress.

    Photo of Zimmerman’s bloody head, medical evidence of the broken nose, and now bail. I doubt this will even go to trial.

    • spincitysd April 20, 2012 at 2:09 pm #

      RR,

      The head shot is doctored, just like the audio was. No first responder is going to leave that amount of skin exposed to possible infection unless it is a very minor abrasion. A 4×4, some Bacitracin, and reassuring word is the absolute minimum treatment.

      Evidence of a broken nose does not exist; you’re mistaken / misinformed at best; deliberately lying at worst. Fractured noses require immediate splinting, plus they hurt like hell. No way Zimmerman calmly walked into that police station with a fractured nose. No way he walked in without some form of immobilization to the injured part.

      There are no shortages of clowns out there exploiting this incident, RR and you’re leaving out more than a few. The NRA has used this incident to push its agenda, as has the usual gang of idiots at Faux News. There are more than enough lies, distortions and dog whistles to go around. Let’s stick to what we do know a young black teenager carrying nothing more an can of ice tea and a bag of skittle was shot dead under very murky circumstance. Local Law Enforcement was suspiciously lackadaisical in its investigating necessitating the dead teens family to raise unholy hell just to get an investigation.

      The rest of the story gets only more muddled from there. Suffice to say the Fl justice system has not covered itself in glory. Suffice to say the Standford FL police force probably wishes it was a little more aggressive in its initial response.

      • Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 2:18 pm #

        Spincity, you are wrong, wrong, wrong, dear.

        The head shot is doctored, just like the audio was. No first responder is going to leave that amount of skin exposed to possible infection unless it is a very minor abrasion.

        So now we go to conspiracy theories? The police took this shot before the paramedics did a thing.

        Evidence of a broken nose does not exist;

        Wrong again. The defense presented it at the hearing today and handed it to the prosecution.

        • spincitysd April 22, 2012 at 2:00 am #

          RR,

          You have zero idea what ABC did to “enhance” that photo. A little photoshop magic to put something in there that was not originally there, and hey presto, we got ourselves a controversy. That is not conspiracy thinking that is, unfortunately expecting a media outlet known for fudging the facts, to well, fudge the facts.

          I will definitely wait to find out the sourcing of the “broken nose” claim.
          I’ll wait to see what the defense team has; but please note the is the defense team talking.

  4. Cujo359 April 20, 2012 at 1:55 pm #

    Bill Cosby made a statement this week that this isn’t about race it’s about guns.

    We’ll see. My view is that this is about guns. Why was someone who clearly didn’t know how to properly handle a firearm allowed to carry one?

    Cosby’s statement begs the question, if Trayvon Martin was white, would George Zimmerman have followed him, suspecting something suspicious?

    Since what supposedly motivated Zimmerman to be out there in the first place was some burglaries allegedly committed by young black men, the answer to that question could be “yes”, and yet not be proof of racism. Had the suspected burglars been latino or white, and Trayvon been white, would he have followed him? If I understand the story correctly, I think he would have.

    • Cujo359 April 20, 2012 at 2:21 pm #

      BTW, let’s remind ourselves of why Bill Cosby no longer owns a weapon:

      His own son, Ennis, was shot dead by a Ukrainian restaurant worker while changing a flat tire on the side of a Los Angeles highway in 1997.

      Another fool with a gun.

      • whitepaw April 20, 2012 at 3:54 pm #

        I tend to agree with you Cujo and the gun issue.

        • Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 4:03 pm #

          I won’t be giving up my gun. It is to protect my home from thugs and my country from tyranny if it ever comes to that. We are the longest surviving democracy in history. We are living on borrowed time.

          • spincitysd April 22, 2012 at 2:02 am #

            Woo-whoo, we have a winner! RR and his sidearm are going to take on the 101st airborne!

            Thanks for playing RR.

  5. Marie205 April 20, 2012 at 1:55 pm #

    Taylor, if Trayvon had not been black…Zimmerman would have stayed inside of his car. I notice a rush by the media to prove Zimmerman not guilty without a full investigation and trial. When this story first broke the media was doing almost anything to prove this guy guilty. Now, they are spinning their wheels to prove he was not the attacker. Only thing I can understand out of this case….is that “unarmed” teenager is dead.

    While a man with a “history of violence” is on trial for murder. The blooded head could very well prove Trayvon was acting in self defense against an “armed” stranger…but we still don’t know that for a fact. All we have is Mr. Zimmerman side of the story and a picture of a bloodied head. I hope this all goes to trail and every evidence on both sides are displayed.

    • mjsmith April 20, 2012 at 2:03 pm #

      Marie205 ” Taylor, if Trayvon had not been black…Zimmerman would have stayed inside of his car. ” – You don’t know that.

      Everything else you said in your comment I agree with.

    • Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 2:07 pm #

      You are grasping at straws, Marie.

      if Trayvon had not been black…Zimmerman would have stayed inside of his car.

      You (or the prosecution) have zero evidence to support that. Have you ever lived in a neighborhood bedeviled by crime? You get absolutely fed the fuck up.

      I notice a rush by the media to prove Zimmerman not guilty without a full investigation and trial.

      Oh, that’s rich. If anything, media are trying to calibrate after the rush to portray big mean George against pretty little Trayvon.

      The blooded head could very well prove Trayvon was acting in self defense

      Really? Why would an armed man start a fist fight? George was jumped by an offended teenager.

      • Marie205 April 20, 2012 at 2:18 pm #

        “Really? Why would an armed man start a fist fight? George was jumped by an offended teenager.” -Rick Roberts

        How do you know this for sure? In less, you are taken Mr. Zimmerman word without question. And the only supposed evidence that has been displayed in the media as been mostly faulty. You and I both don’t know what really happen that night the incident took place. I have only speculated on how easy the prosecutor could claim Trayvon was defending himself against armed an “stranger”.

        I hope this all still goes to trail.

        • Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 2:19 pm #

          In court, Zimmerman’s statement must be taken as truth unless there is evidence to refute it.

          • Marie205 April 20, 2012 at 2:22 pm #

            Rick Roberts…Well apparently, the prosecutor thinks she has enough. But who really knows…this case is turning into media circus, like the Case Anthony trail.

          • Ga6thDem April 20, 2012 at 2:40 pm #

            Well then Zimmerman pursued Trayvon and that makes Zimmerman the agressor in this case.

          • casualobserver April 20, 2012 at 2:49 pm #

            You are doing a good job holding your own here, but here is what I see was a real key event to today’s proceedings……Florida law provides no entitlement to bail for a second degree murder charge. You will recall Corey’s charging affidavit took advantage of that law in her “no bail” stipulation. Today, you have the State backpedaling immediately to a $1m bail argument and the judge backing that waaay down to $150K.
            If the State actually had ANY evidence to argue the second degree charge, they would be idiots to not present it today. The State has effectively just admitted to the judge today they do not have such.

            Why not hold it back for the trial, you say? Well, under open discovery, O’Mara gets to see it anyway before the immunity hearing (Florida Code of Crim Proc, Rule 3.220)….they can’t surprise him at trial……(actually he surprised them quite well today by putting Zimmerman on the stand…..note how flat-footed the prosecutor was in crossing Zim)…..so, it gains the prosecution absolutely nothing not to go for broke today….because while they obviously are hoping for a day in front of an OJSimpson jury with their flimsy case, they cannot get there unless the judge denies immunity from prosecution……and the judge, by his bail grant, was obvioulsy not too impressed today.

          • spincitysd April 20, 2012 at 4:12 pm #

            You are aware of a little legal item known as “cross examination” right?

            The prosecutor is under no obligation to take anything Zimmerman says as the truth. The prosecutor can point out inconsistencies, lapses in memory, changes in the testimony, gaps in the story. etc. , etc. , etc. Plenty of testimony can be shown to be less than truthful without clearing the high bar of perjury.

            Neither side in this case is the least bit interested in the “truth” they are interested in guilt; in the proof of or denial of guilt. Zimmerman is presumed to be not guilty, he is not presumed to be telling the truth.

          • AliceP April 20, 2012 at 5:30 pm #

            Thats just BS. The accused statement that clears himself taken as truth? That is the job of the jury to decide.

          • Solo April 21, 2012 at 11:26 am #

            The word of the defendant must be taken as truth?

        • Marie205 April 20, 2012 at 2:20 pm #

          And also, why would an unarmed teenager start a fight with someone armed? It all just don’t add up.

          • Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 2:21 pm #

            Because the weapon was concealed. You not so smaht!

          • Marie205 April 20, 2012 at 2:26 pm #

            “Because the weapon was concealed. You not so smaht!”…Rick Roberts

            Gee! great another personal attack…This time insulting my intelligence. Anyway, you are still going by what Mr. Zimmerman claims. Outside of Martin; who is dead, no one else really knows that for sure.

          • Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 4:04 pm #

            Marie, here is what doesn’t add up. Why would an armed George Zimmerman call the police, give them his exact location, and then physically assault Trayvon Martin?

          • spincitysd April 20, 2012 at 4:17 pm #

            And RR, how do you know the weapon was concealed? You only have Zimmerman’s word. Good chance he lied about that. Quite possible he waved that weapon around and “forgot” to tell the police. Oh and BTW if it was concealed, did he have the permit to have the weapon concealed? hum, interesting question.

  6. Ga6thDem April 20, 2012 at 2:17 pm #

    Bottom line is the stand your ground law is a bad law if we’re having this many problems with it. It needs to be gotten rid of so this confusion will never happen again.

    • Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 2:56 pm #

      bad law … this many problems … this confusion

      Splain, please.

      • Ga6thDem April 20, 2012 at 4:23 pm #

        There’s a case here in GA where a man shot a guy who had been harassing him and he went to jail for murder even though we have the “Stand your ground” law here in GA. the problem is that the “threat” is subjective and depends on the person’s own experiences and prejudices. The people carrying weapons do not have the correct training to differentiate between a real threat and a perceived threat. They do not know how to handle situations such as this and the law is not applied equally across the country. It’s a bad law. There’s no doubt about it. If we did not have this law would we would not even be having this discussion. Zimmerman would probably have already pled out on manslaughter and there would be none of this other stuff.

        • casualobserver April 20, 2012 at 5:14 pm #

          Based on what you provide regarding the Georgia case, that has nothing to do with a “stand your ground” law being on the books or not. Even if there was no SYG statute, the defendant obviously still lost his argument on the age-old self-defense as an affirmative defense.

          All the Florida SYG statute does is to revoke the duty to retreat as a precedent to self-defense as an affirmative defense.

          Given the story as told by Zimmerman, he has no need to rely on the removal of the duty to retreat statute because his story is that Martin was on top of him and striking him. I know of no cases where, if such is true, the duty to retreat isn’t treated as effectively irrelevant.

          • Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 5:22 pm #

            And why should we, as citizens, have a duty to retreat if we are out and about, enjoying the freedoms in our country, and confronted by some thug who wants to steal from us or just harass? Hell, if you retreat, you could get it in the back. Enough is enough. That’s what these laws are about. These little punks need to know that when they start something, their victim may not be a victim after all.

          • Ga6thDem April 20, 2012 at 7:01 pm #

            No the FL law does more than that. It allows you to shoot anywhere and anytime you feel “threatened” or you think someone “else” is threatened.

            And btw, the case in GA was where the guy was at his own house when he shot the guy.

      • spincitysd April 20, 2012 at 4:29 pm #

        RR

        Let’s see an increase in uninvestigated shootings in FL and other states. The need for the law in the first place. The encouragement of vigilante justice that is given by the law. But wait, there’s more! The impact the law has on people of color and other un-empowered people; etc., etc., etc.

        It’s a shitty law that undermines public safety and further privatizes what should be public functions. Governments for good or ill must have a monopoly on the use of violence, otherwise we are back to Hobbs and the battle of all against the all. The police function of government can not be surrendered to private individuals RR, you can’t have the general public running around the streets armed to the teeth and insure domestic tranquility. We tried that in Dodge and Tombstone, didn’t work then–won’t work now.

  7. spincitysd April 20, 2012 at 2:39 pm #

    ” Bill Cosby made a statement this week that this isn’t about race it’s about guns. It sounds to me like a statement from someone who doesn’t own a firearm. I say this because we do and I’ve had this debate with people who don’t.”

    I’m not surprised Bill Cosby said this. Very typical of Cosby, totally clueless about race because his whole shtick is about ignoring that elephant in the room.

    But there is a germ of truth here. If Zimmerman did not the happiness that is a warm gun, would he have been so bold. Minimum set here Taylor, the knowledge that he had the ultimate back-up made Zimmerman reckless and careless. Could the possession of small arm made Zimmerman more willing to follow, track, pursue Martin like some perverse bit of big game hunt? Who knows? I’m betting it did. I betting the possession of a firearm gave Zimmerman to indulge in some of his more toxic. racist, lizard brain thinking. It allowed Zimmerman to more easily “other” Martin.

    Possession of small arm is right, but it is also a responsibility. Unfortunately very few gun owners have ever considered those grave responsibilities. You own a device whose sole purpose it to cause grave injury to another living creature — understood?

    Small arms deal out death and destruction; that is the long and short of it. You have an unavoidable responsibility to learn and contemplate about the proper use of deadly force when you own a small arm. You have a unavoidable responsibility to keep that weapon safe, out of the hands of unauthorized users. You have an unavoidable responsibility to know where that weapon is at all times. With that weapon you have to have a plan on how exactly you plan to deploy it in self defense. You have a unavoidable responsibility to be proficient in the use of that weapon, be willing to aim at the center of mass of your opponent. You have to understand that this event will be very up-close and personal with a handgun or shotgun. You have to be willing to live the consequences of that action.

    I seriously doubt that Zimmerman took any of these items under consideration. He was at best totally careless in his choices; his possession of death-dealing weapon is a significant part of these discussions. But Cosby is wrong in to say race had no component here; it did, it does, it will. We are knee deep in to yet another shouting match about race with nary a beer summit in sight.

    :???:

    • Cujo359 April 20, 2012 at 2:49 pm #

      You own a device whose sole purpose it to cause grave injury to another living creature – understood?

      Well, they’re also really handy when you need to knock a beer can off a fence post…

    • Cujo359 April 20, 2012 at 3:41 pm #

      Should have addressed this, too, but I saw that punchline…

      I’m not surprised Bill Cosby said this. Very typical of Cosby, totally clueless about race because his whole shtick is about ignoring that elephant in the room.

      As someone who grew up in the 1960s in eastern Pennsylvania, I can assure you that no one who is reasonably intelligent could grow up there and be “clueless” about racism. Bigots and racists abounded there. The reason I have such a detailed taxonomy of them is that I spent so much time observing them. I can also tell you that one of the reasons many people hold those attitudes is that different ethnic groups tend to grow up and live separately there. A lot of what people believed about each other was ignorant nonsense.

      I don’t take unsupported charges of racism seriously for the same reason I don’t take any other unsupported charges seriously – I spent my early life surrounded by people who did nothing but let their prejudices do the talking. That they generally seemed to be the ones who were talking loudest was no coincidence. If someone’s prejudice is that whatever happens between people of different ethnic groups simply must be racism, that’s no more reasonable than to explain it by maintaining that one person or the other simply must have had some characteristic based on his ethnic heritage.

  8. whitepaw April 20, 2012 at 2:40 pm #

    I was able to watch a bit of the trial today. Very interesting. From what I saw, I thought there were several things that came out:

    1. In the affadavit, which apparently has been sworn as factual by the investigator, there seems to be some conjecture… specifically that the investigator could not state that he knew who started the altercation, whereas the affadavit states that Zimmerman confronted Martin. This presumes that the prosecution does not know who started the altercation. Also, they do not appear to know for sure that Zimmerman was not walking back toward his car after the dispatcher said he did not need to pursue Martin. From this alone, if the prosecution does not have more evidence of what they state in the affadavit… well, does not sound like 2nd degree murder.

    2. When the prosecutor questioned Zimmerman, he suggested that perhaps Zimmerman’s story differed over the three (or however many) interogations he received that night. Zimmerman denied this, but it will be interesting to see the transcripts and what discrepancies there are, if any.

    3. I really do not see a big issue with Zimmerman not contacting the family to express that he was sorry before now.. he was told not to.

    4. Taylor, from your quote above from Zimmerman, I understood him to say that he thought Martin was a few years younger, not older, but I could be wrong. And this has always bothered me… everyone keeps stating that Martin was unarmed, but how would Zimmerman know this? If he suspected a burglar, and there had been burglaries in the neighborhood, well… Very sad state of affairs, but I am not so sure that this is all about racial profiling, as the media reports indicate that the neighborhood was being victimized by burglaries by young black men (whether true or not, will have to wait for the trial if there is one).

    5. During the testimony of the investigator, it was stated that Martin’s girlfriend was not interviewed until 5 weeks after the incident… That is a bit odd to me. And for those who think that there was no ongoing investigation until the media uproar, there was a scheduled grand jury set by the initial States Attorney, so they were planning to review what evidence they had and determine if Zimmerman should be brought to trial. Whether that investigation was thorough enough is the question.

    6. I still think Zimmerman used poor judgment, but am not sure at all that he will be convicted for 2nd degree murder, or anything at this point.

    7. Again, need to wait for more evidence… I am sure the prosecution must have a lot more than this.

    • Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 3:19 pm #

      I was able to watch a bit of the trial today. –whitepaw

      It wasn’t a trial. It was a bond hearing.

      • whitepaw April 20, 2012 at 3:44 pm #

        OK RR — Sorry for my BIG mistake… anything else to add?

        • Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 3:54 pm #

          Oh, gosh, I’ve added quite a bit already. :)

  9. Sandmann April 20, 2012 at 3:01 pm #

    The lesson that should be learned is MYOFB.

    • Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 3:07 pm #

      Wrong, Sandmann. I will re-ask my question. Have you ever lived in a neighborhood riddled with crime and thugs? You get fed up. Minding your own business allows it to fester.

      • Sandmann April 20, 2012 at 3:42 pm #

        As far as I’m concerned, your blatant bigotry has devalued any argument you may have on matters of race.

        • Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 3:56 pm #

          Sigh. Just sigh. See, Sandmann, when you call someone a bigot or a racist, that is a conversation ender.

          • Sandmann April 20, 2012 at 4:08 pm #

            You’ll get no sympathy from me. You want sympathy, look in the dictionary between shit and syphilis. That’s where you’ll find my sympathy ~Major Payne

            You earned it.

        • secularhumanizinevoluter April 21, 2012 at 7:51 am #

          I am always most amused when the racists trot out this line of male bovine fecal matter.
          In point of fact YES, I have lived in some of the most crime riddled neighborhoods this country has, 61st and Chestnut in Phila. till the 5th grade and then Darby and Chester Pa.
          I would say “devalued” is putting it mildly.

          • Rick Roberts April 21, 2012 at 8:24 am #

            So, Sec, you have indeed lived in a crime-riddled neighborhood, and you can’t concede that the residents get fed up with it? You add nothing by calling it bullshit or calling me a racist. That simply means you don’t have the mental faculties to try to understand another’s point of view or to raise a reasoned counterargument. Instead, it’s just Woo! Racist! I’m done! No soup for you!

            This case may never go to trial. If it does, there will be an acquittal. Then you and others who have blinders on will scream injustice while the savages in the streets make mayhem. Then you all will say it is justified rage over this latest injustice after four hundred years of injustice. The rest of us will sigh and continue to do what we have to to keep our lives, families, and property safe.

      • spincitysd April 20, 2012 at 5:06 pm #

        Spoken like a Air Force man who never had to do a security patrol in his tour.

        Let me help you out RR, as a man who did have to stand watches with a sidearm and consider what his options really were.

        Sidebar: You don’t really know the definition of screwed until you really think out how a scenario with you armed with a M1911A1 sidearm (total bullets available 10) against terrorists armed with Kalashnikovs (total bullets available –oh shit) might play out.

        In a patrol situation you follow the orders of dispatch–full stop. You get called off, you stay called off. Sit in your truck, stay safe, go home at the end of the night. Your vehicle is you best defensive shield. 3000 pounds of steel and glass works a lot better both defensively and offensively than 200 pounds of flesh and bone. Zimmerman should have never left his vehicle; again full stop. I don’t give a rat’s ass how angry he was, I don’t care how much thievery was going on : stay in the god-damn truck genius, you are not PD.

        As neighborhood watch, as PD’s eyes and ears in the neighborhood Zimmerman was only required to observe and report; that’s it. Note the person of interest, give a full and complete description, try to keep him or her in view, have a nice day. The minute he steps out of the truck, he is well beyond his function and his training. He is an unguided missile. He also placing himself in grave risk. He could have easily ended up dead.

        Sometimes in the game of security all you can accomplish is presence. You can deter the bad guy in your specific time in your specific area. It is frustrating, but it does not give you permission to go rouge, it does not give you permission to go vigilante. If Zimmerman had stayed in that truck, he would not be hard up against a 2nd degree murder charge now would he?

        I have zero sympathy for Zimmerman, he is an idiot. He has no situational awareness to speak of, and is a threat to himself and the others around him. He did not think, he only acted. He never paused to think “where am I, who is this guy in front of me, what are my options if this all goes south in a hurry?” No, he allowed his person of interest to get to close to him during the interview / confrontation and allowed his opponent to dictate the course of events that followed–really f–king stupid.

        RR, events clearly show that Zimmerman was out of his depth, and had no business even being a neighborhood watch, never mind having any real business with Mr. Martin. He should have stayed home and let an adult do the job of community watch.

        • Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 5:25 pm #

          Wow, you seem to know a lot about my AF service. Have you pulled my records?

  10. Cujo359 April 20, 2012 at 3:08 pm #

    Jeralyn Merit had a good writeup today on the implications of the bail hearing. What I take away from it is that either:

    - The prosecution doesn’t have a slam dunk case (one possible reason to deny bail). That’s not to say they don’t have a case, but it’s contestable based on what has been presented thus far, or

    - Zimmerman isn’t considered a flight risk. He’s married, has ties to the area, and is a student.

    Possibly both are true, but presumably at least one is.

    • Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 3:15 pm #

      I’m already reading speculation that bail was granted because the judge is white. Sigh.

  11. Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 4:28 pm #

    Solo, but I have said that before. More than once. You just weren’t listening or chose to ignore it.

  12. Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 4:31 pm #

    Spincity, yes, Zimmerman had a permit to carry a concealed weapon. That has been in the news for some time and was confirmed at the hearing today. You would do well to listen and read carefully and pay attention to details. Details matter.

  13. Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 4:41 pm #

    Zimmerman is presumed to be not guilty, he is not presumed to be telling the truth.

    SpinCity, that will come out in the hearing to dismiss under the stand your ground law. Then it wouldn’t even go to trial.

    “Y’all! We wuz robbed! Let’s go break windows and burn cars!”

    • spincitysd April 20, 2012 at 5:16 pm #

      Sand your ground may not even apply RR. We will see though. And I would not make light of what may happen if Zimmerman is dismissed. I remember the ’68 riots, I remember LA. Nothing to make light of RR. It’s a tinderbox out there.

      So Zimmerman was using a concealed weapon legally; speaks well to my other argument– he’s an idiot. As a patrolling watch, I would have that sucker out in plain view; let my interviewee know exactly what s/he is up against. (Oh, and I do this at a 10 foot distance between me and the person of interest.)

    • casualobserver April 20, 2012 at 5:35 pm #

      that will come out in the hearing to dismiss under the stand your ground law

      minor quibble with your phraseology (whitepaw put me up to it!)……let’s use “immunity hearing”…….while the IH was packaged by the Florida legislature in the same statute as SYG, it is indeed a revision to crim proc apart from anything to do with SYG. As I elaborated to GeorgiaDemocrat above, I expect Zimmerman will be arguing simply self-defense as an affirmative defense and not that he was “standing his ground”…….since he was actually laying on the ground under Martin.

      When your head is getting bashed into the sidewalk/curb, no “reasonable person” expects you to have first exhausted all rational theories of extrication while being head-banged.

      • Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 5:44 pm #

        Immunity hearing it is.

      • Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 5:55 pm #

        CO, what is the possibility this thing won’t even go to trial?

        • casualobserver April 20, 2012 at 6:57 pm #

          Without seeing what the prosecution really has (via open discovery), I have to still hedge my bet.

          On one hand, the State has evidenced it intends to rely on word games…….Z was “ordered” by dispatch…….why didn’t Z “wait” (as in “freeze himself in place”)…….and that the State “witnesses” consist of people who “heard things” and “saw shadows”……..none of which is going to count for much, if anything with Lester…….if that is what the State has, I would think the possibility of dismissal of charges is high.

          On the other hand, Gilbreath let one gem out…….that they have evidence that Zimmerman’s statement about being head-banged is not consistent therewith. This could turn out to be very weak tea,,,,i.e., the medical treatment doesn’t indicate “life-threatening” level of wound or some such thing……..or they could have something a lot less subject to conjecture. If they get something hard to put doubt on Z’s statements, I could see the judge say let it go to trial.

          It all hangs on the evidence that is there or not there to refute Z’s statements. My gut tells me the SP is just stringing out a loser of a case as best they can for the political theatrics of not having to cut Z free any earlier than possible.

          • Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 7:13 pm #

            Those are my hunches, too, but I am trying to remain as open as I can. I just want the truth to be told as best as we can know it. I hope there isn’t violence, but I just know there will be unless Zimmerman is strung up. In my own neighborhood, I know some of these fools will lose their ever loving minds if Zimmerman is let go. I just hope I’m home at the time to get my animals out before the place is burned down and looted.

  14. Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 7:24 pm #

    No the FL law does more than that. It allows you to shoot anywhere and anytime you feel “threatened” or you think someone “else” is threatened.

    Ga6th, bullshit. Here is the relevant text from the law:

    Fla. Stat. § 776.012. Use of force in defense of person

    A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

    (1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony

    Stop being a dumbass.

    • Ga6thDem April 21, 2012 at 5:27 pm #

      You see your last paragraph? That is completely subjective. I might “believe” that you are going to break into my house because that kind of thing is based on a “gut feeling” not the facts because people like you have been breaking into houses in my neighborhood. Or because people like you have been dealing drugs I might “reasonably believe” that you are dealing drugs and therefore a threat. None of this is based on any evidence.

      • Rick Roberts April 22, 2012 at 8:53 am #

        No point in arguing with you. Your reading comprehension skills seem to be those of a grade schooler.

  15. T-Steel April 20, 2012 at 8:10 pm #

    I thought about an incident when I was a 17-year old high school football player (20 years ago). We had this Vietnam vet that was the self-described crime fighter. Dude used to patrol the streets like crazy. And he looked crazy. I remember one time I was walking home from a local deli when Mr. Crime Fighter started following me. I would stop and he would kind of duck out of sight. I got seriously irritated and ran off to an alley to hide and wait for him. He walked past and I jumped out. He was startled and I demanded why he was following me. He said he was making sure I wasn’t up to no good. I, being a brash young guy (with one suspension for fighting) and defensive end philosophy, proceeded to use colorful language as to why I took exception. And I got up in his face. He, being a Vietnam vet and in good shape got right back in my face. NOW I was tempted to push him back but I heard my father’s voice:

    “Do not hit, punch, kick, or whatever an adult UNLESS you are attacked. And words ain’t an attack!”

    So I threw my hands up in the air, called him a “crazy punk mutha-something” and walked away. I later found out that dude was always “packing heat”. Now he never reached for his gun. Heck I wouldn’t have known it he had one. But it makes me wonder what would have happened if I pushed that guy. He was following me. I wasn’t doing anything wrong….

    There isn’t a moral to my story. But looking at my little incident (which I didn’t even think about until the Martin-Zimmerman Situation), just made me think about Trayvon. He wasn’t a full-fledged criminal. He didn’t have a gun. And he wasn’t going to commit a crime apparently. But I can picture him taking EXCEPTION to being followed. Not that hard to imagine that. Now what happened after that is anyone’s guess. Martin and Zimmerman are equal participants in this tragedy. It would be so much easier if Martin had a gun and it was laying on the ground somewhere. Then you could zero in on Zimmerman’s full-fledged self-defense. It would be so much easier if Zimmerman was spouting bigoted language and his hatred of black folks to the dispatcher. Then you could zero in on Zimmerman being a crazed profiling killer. But it isn’t so. So we stuck with soda with no carbonation. No justice for anyone in this case IMO.

    • Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 8:26 pm #

      You make good sense. All of us should take heed. Thank you.

      • T-Steel April 20, 2012 at 9:36 pm #

        Just been two much overheated talk across the board. And yes, I do blame Sharpton and Jackson for starting it. Not saying that the opposite response is innocent babes. But damn…. They want to talk about teachable moments, they could have took the high road and looked great! Nope, they just did their usual thing. In my early days, I looked at Rev. Jackson has a mythic figure. A hero. Talk about seeing things through a grown-up eyes now… :shock:

  16. casualobserver April 20, 2012 at 8:55 pm #

    Yes, T, I suspect you have a better sense of Trayvon Martin than most. Of all the coulda, shoulda, woulda indictments of Zimmerman that our favorite blogging friends have made, the same coulda, woulda, shoulda is intentionally swept under the rug via-a-vis Martin. If TM was actually not looking to confront GZ, he had 3 minutes to go 70 yards to the house he was staying at. How many seconds does it take an athlete to go 100 yards? Is it logical to think Zimmerman’s 5’8″ stride could close on Martin’s 6’3″ stride even at just a purposeful walk by Martin? Thinking about the the initial spacing between them if Zimmerman is in his truck and Martin has moved somewhere out of eyesight, the elapsed time from the 7:13 Zimmerman dispatcher call to the infamous 7:16 DeeDee call, just how does Zimmerman possibly overtake Martin anywhere short of the inside of Martin’s house?

    • Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 8:57 pm #

      Don’t try to make sense, CO. “Das raciss.”

    • T-Steel April 20, 2012 at 9:32 pm #

      CO, I just know how I thought as a 18 year old growing up in Detroit. We have this saying in certain parts of the black community. It is:

      I wish a muthaf*****r would….

      LOL! Basically it means that if someone tries something, I will finish it. So “I wish someone would try something”. It’s about bravado and many times self-preservation. See, when I go back to my 18-year old mindset, if Zimmerman was following me, well, I would have confronted him. No doubt about it. My “wish a mutha*****r would” mindset would have popped up. Oh and I would have gave him the verbal business. Would I have punch/pushed/etc GZ? Well, I can honestly say, I don’t know. But I’m leaning slightly towards the push. See that Vietnam vet LOOKED crazy. So hearing my father’s words were good. But seeing that crazy glint in that dude’s eyes stopped me cold. GZ doesn’t look like that. Maybe I would have laid my hands on him. Not out of the realm of possibility.

      Now I’m speculating that’s how it went down between Martin and Zimmerman. BUT I would bet one of grandma’s caramel apple pecan pies (which I LOVE) that Trayvon wasn’t gonna be “punked” by some “dude in a car”. Now how far he went, we don’t know. Either way, Martin is dead. And we don’t have an eyewitness to the entire situation except GZ. So…..

      That’s why I rather concentrate on how the Sanford PD and state attorney handled this. Did they drag their feet? Were they inept? To me, that’s where the case is than the 2nd degree murder trial.

  17. fairmindedindependent April 20, 2012 at 10:05 pm #

    No one is going to win this, everyone loses in this case, I hope the media gets that. This is about Justice and what really happened that night between George Zimmerman and Treyvon Martin. The media has been aweful in covering this case with different networks taking different sides. Each side is going to be mad if their side does not win knowing that there is no winners in all this in the end. People are talking about riots if Zimmerman is found not guilty, well Zimmermans side is going to be angry too if he is found guilty. I am not taking sides in this case, I want to know all the evidence and see what each side has to present. I also heard that Zimmermans mother or wife had to leave town because of threats, thats unacceptable !! People need to leave George Zimmermans father, mother, wife, and other relatives alone. Relatives or Spouses should be off limits.

  18. casualobserver April 20, 2012 at 10:13 pm #

    Yes, the FDLE review is of great interest to me as well. But, I will be blunt…..based on what it looks like Corey is basing her affidavit of charge on, I think Sanford PD covered all the required investigatory bases and the county DA’s initial decision not to proceed with charges was reasonable based on the lack of evidence or witnesses to refute Zimmerman’s version of events. Neither department has the luxury of keeping investigations open forever or bringing charges based on longshots of what if scenarios.

  19. Sandmann April 20, 2012 at 11:45 pm #

    [Unarmed] Trayvon Martin was minding his own business.

    [Armed] George Zimmerman was minding Trayvon’s business.

    At what moment does Mr. Zimmerman become the victim?

    • Rick Roberts April 20, 2012 at 11:58 pm #

      The moment Trayvon jumped him.

      • Sandmann April 21, 2012 at 1:20 am #

        How did Mr. Zimmerman find himself in a position to be jumped?

        • Rick Roberts April 21, 2012 at 7:38 am #

          As he sought a street sign to tell the police his location.

          • Sandmann April 21, 2012 at 9:21 am #

            How was Mr. Zimmerman close enough for Trayvon to accomplish this?

            What crime was Trayvon committing that encouraged Mr. Zimmerman to pursue?

            Under whose authority was Mr. Zimmerman dispatched?

  20. ladywalker68 April 21, 2012 at 12:24 am #

    Apology…statement of regret..you can fancy it all up with whatever words…if you put flowers on top of a pile of bovine fecal matter, it is still bovine fecal matter.

    Nobody knows exactly what happened that night and Zimmerman is going to spin it however he can to get himself off the hook. He is an idiot who had a gun and appointed himself cop, jury, judge and executioner of Treyvon Martin. He took the gift of life away from a human being. This cannot be undone or reversed. I don’t believe for a minute he regrets the loss of life. He is only saying this now because his action of taking a life is being investigated. There would be no bovine fecal matter of a statement of regret had he not been arrested and charged.

    • secularhumanizinevoluter April 21, 2012 at 7:43 am #

      “I don’t believe for a minute he regrets the loss of life. He is only saying this now because his action of taking a life is being investigated. ”

      The only regret he has is that he didn’t get clean away with it. Instead of being the hero savior protector he fantasized he was in his pathetic cop wannabee mind he is being held accountable for his cowardly, racist killing of a promising young man guilty only of walking while Black.

      But hey, the kid was wearing a HOODIE…that’s good enough for some.

      • Rick Roberts April 21, 2012 at 8:29 am #

        a promising young man

        That’s what you think? If true, he would be defying overwhelming odds considering his previous actions. But hey, some people do defy odds. The gold teeth, gangsta lingo and dress, and petty crime indicated not, though.

        • secularhumanizinevoluter April 21, 2012 at 2:59 pm #

          Only to a racist that knows what THOSE people are like RR, only to a racist.

          • Rick Roberts April 21, 2012 at 5:00 pm #

            Shame on you again, Sec. Shame. This shows you have nothing of substance to add.

            Do your read crime statistics? Ever studied sociology? Criminal justice? There are markers you can look at along the way in a young man’s life that are pretty good predictors of where he will end up.

            You are repugnant.

          • secularhumanizinevoluter April 21, 2012 at 5:31 pm #

            RR spews the same “statistic” ginned crap every racist white person who says “I’M not a racist…just look at the stats….THOSE people are just that way” says. Sounds like he’s working for limpwithnoballs or OLielly or faux not News.
            When you take his comments as a whole there just isn’t any way to see them as other then racist.
            Now I will give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he actually is to stupid or clueless to see how his scared white boy spewings are just parroting the same crap that has turned up time after time after time in repugnantklan/teabagger campaigns and posts and tweets, but the sad reality is skippy you ARE a racist.
            I know it hurts to see yourself being called on it, but there you are.

    • Rick Roberts April 21, 2012 at 8:31 am #

      Ladywalker, the reason I said it wasn’t an apology is because it was not meant to be an apology. O’Mara said as much after the hearing. I wasn’t trying to be cute with words.

  21. Rick Roberts April 21, 2012 at 8:14 am #

    Reaction to the George Zimmerman Bail Hearing

    From TalkLeft. For those of us who have been paying attention, this is nothing new. For the rest of you who have a narrative you wish to support, well … you can use your brains or continue down the troublesome road you have been on.

    • AliceP April 21, 2012 at 9:01 am #

      From Rick Roberts

      From TalkLeft. For those of us who have been paying attention, this is nothing new. For the rest of you who have a narrative you wish to support, well … you can use your brains or continue down the troublesome road you have been on.

      Rick, you have an elaborate story to tell about this tragic event that even includes your knowing Trayvon’s mind set and actions based on your own prejudiced view of his appearance and “facts” that I haven’t read anywhere else (poor George was jumped by Trayvon while he was looking for a street sign to tell the police where he was located because he didn’t know the which of the three or four streets he was on in the gated community where he lives).

      Are you the only person who has the savvy to really understand this situation?

      • Rick Roberts April 21, 2012 at 9:12 am #

        Read the end of the call transcript and listen to Zimmerman’s attorneys.

        I read and listen. Just as you should. Did you read Jeralyn’s piece from TalkLeft that I linked above?

  22. Rick Roberts April 21, 2012 at 9:33 am #

    Sandmann –

    How was Mr. Zimmerman close enough for Trayvon to accomplish this?

    Irrelevant. What is your point?

    What crime was Trayvon committing that encouraged Mr. Zimmerman to pursue?

    Irrelevant. What is your point? He looked suspicious and didn’t live there. There had been a spate of break-ins in the neighborhood.

    Under whose authority was Mr. Zimmerman dispatched?

    Irrelevant. What is your point?

    I ask you again. Did you read the piece over at TalkLeft? You should.

    • Sandmann April 21, 2012 at 9:45 am #

      I ask you again. Did you read the piece over at TalkLeft?

      Irrelevant.

      • Rick Roberts April 21, 2012 at 9:53 am #

        Not irrelevant. It is a sober analysis from an expert defense attorney. If you wish to be well-informed about anything, then you expose yourself to sources that both support and don’t support your point of view or belief. I have done that in this matter, and many of the people who comment here seem not to have. You prefer to shove your head in the sand. Where does that get us?

    • Rick Roberts April 21, 2012 at 9:59 am #

      I asked you your point on each of the questions above. Why not answer? Or are you just here to label and throw insults. Wouldn’t you rather have a dialog and try to understand?

      • Sandmann April 21, 2012 at 10:01 am #

        Irrelevant

  23. Sandmann April 21, 2012 at 9:42 am #

    I encounter too many young men like Trayvon Martin to believe that’s how it went down. These young men live to harass, irritate, offend, and intimidate. They love it. ~Rick Roberts

    If this were to go to trial, would you be excused during the jury selection process with this statement, why or why not?

    • Rick Roberts April 21, 2012 at 9:49 am #

      Yes, of course, if I were to make that statement, I would be excused because my statement is prejudicial. Your point?

      Prejudice is not the same as racism or bigotry. Prejudice is a survival mechanism. We all pre-judge people, places, and situations all the time.

    • T-Steel April 21, 2012 at 12:37 pm #

      I’m going to take a bit of exception to Rick Roberts’ comment:

      “These young men live to harass, irritate, offend, and intimidate. They love it.”

      Being a former knucklehead myself, I did my fair share of harassing, irritating, offending, and intimidating. I didn’t live for it or necessary love it. It was just the way things were in 1980s Detroit with a substantial amount of we black teen-aged dudes. Defensive mechanism for some. Road to criminality for others. And just following along for others. I was more of a thug than Trayvon Martin was is compared side-by-side. Yet I stayed out of the juvenile detention system but couldn’t avoid a couple of suspensions. My read of Trayvon Martin was that he was a typical teen-aged “hanger-on” that adopted a persona from current, and stupid, hip-hop culture. “No Limit N—a” is a phrase said by rapper Master P and his No Limit Record company. (As an aside, Master P has become a respectable businessman and sometimes children show actor – and his children are child actors themselves and doing well – go figure).

      So all those images of Martin was all bluster and small bite. Threatening a bus driver and carrying an empty pot bag isn’t small potatoes but hardly hardened thug stuff (as I said I did more). So I’m not all concerned about all that. What this case boils down to:

      1. George Zimmerman’s pursuit
      2. Trayvon Martin’s response to that pursuit

      That’s it in my eyes. And my eyes, ears, and brain tell me that it will be extremely hard for a jury to deal with those core issues fully enough to say guilty of 2nd degree murder. Even according to Florida law, manslaughter is kind of iffy but is a bit more easier to run with. Trying to prove GZ is stone racist killer or TM is a gangsta criminal thug just won’t fly.

      On a more personal level, I feel like this:

      I understand and not understand George Zimmerman’s pursuit of TZ.
      I understand and not understand Trayvon Martin’s response to the pursuit (as there SOME credence that Martin responded).

      • Rick Roberts April 21, 2012 at 12:50 pm #

        T, these are key phrases from Jeralyn’s take on the hearing:

        The state has no evidence contradicting that Zimmerman started to walk back to his car after the dispatcher told him he didn’t need to follow Martin.

        Whether Trayvon was doing anything wrong before their encounter is not the issue and neither is who spoke to the other first. No one is legally permitted to punch another person because they were asked a question.

        • T-Steel April 21, 2012 at 1:21 pm #

          The state has no evidence contradicting that Zimmerman started to walk back to his car after the dispatcher told him he didn’t need to follow Martin.

          Nothing much to add there. LOL!

          Whether Trayvon was doing anything wrong before their encounter is not the issue and neither is who spoke to the other first. No one is legally permitted to punch another person because they were asked a question.

          Yep, legally you don’t have the right to strike someone if they ask you a question. But how it is asked and what’s going on around you, well that can elevate things a bit. So now we go back to the response. If GZ didn’t have a gun, would it have been an even match? Skinny 6-foot athlete vs. 5′ 8-ish regular dude? How vicious was the fight? Who had the upper hand? So on a so forth. So you have alleged injuries to GZ and will have medical examiner testimony about how the gun was fired (far away, up close..). Etc…. I have seen vicious looking fights where people walk away with very minor scrapes if that (more grabbing, tugging, etc). But since we don’t have an eyewitness, I would not want to be on a jury for all the gold on the other side of the rainbow.

          So how did a TZ punch (going with that view) turn into TZ being shot and a killed? I just don’t see enough so far for 2nd degree murder conviction.

          If only there was an eyewitness….

          • Cujo359 April 21, 2012 at 3:55 pm #

            If only there was an eyewitness

            I’m not sure that an eyewitness would have been all that helpful, unless that person had been watching this thing develop for some reason. There’s a truism in hockey – “the guy who retaliates goes to the box”. That’s because, quite often, in hockey the impartial witness (the referee) doesn’t see how the incident starts. He just sees the commotion, and often in time to see the guy who was wronged retaliating. Then the guy who was wronged ends up sitting in the penalty box.

            Odds are, any witnesses would have had a similarly incomplete picture.

  24. Rick Roberts April 21, 2012 at 5:02 pm #

    The word of the defendant must be taken as truth? – Solo

    Solo, yes, as I understand it, but I am willing to be corrected. Since Zimmerman is claiming self defense, the state will have to prove it was not. I may have that backwards. There are a couple of people here who seem to be lawyers. Maybe they can chime in.

  25. Antonio April 21, 2012 at 5:48 pm #

    “this isn’t about race it’s about guns”…my most famous quote…”BULLSH#$*T”!!!!!!!

    Not to be taken personally by anyone except Cosby

    If Zimmerman had beaten Trayvon to death with his hands we would’nt even be talking about guns…or “stand your ground”. It is about race and whom will justice be favoring, an armed white adult or an unarmed black teenager? Listen…there’s one thing we can be sure of and that is…from now until the time of our death, everyone here, this generation on Taylor’s site and everyone else in this world………..race still, and will be an everyday issue for us, so let us stop already…it is about race(first), and then everything else…including his death, sad to say.

    I believe that Zimmerman will either get a dismissal or if convicted, no more than five -ten years if that. I don’t see him getting the max in this republican st. The powers that be simply won’t allow it, we saw what it took to get a simple arrest and a change in st procecutors…and the woman had the stupidity to say… we do not procecute by “force”, please!

    And as usual…I pray that I am wrong.

    • Rick Roberts April 21, 2012 at 6:25 pm #

      Antonio, thank you for your perspective. Many things are about race, but that doesn’t mean that everything is about race. I sincerely believe this case is not about race. And just because this case is not about race, that doesn’t mean that we don’t continue to address other race and class issues.

      I sure hope we continue to hear from you.

      By the way, I agree with your judgment on Cosby’s comment.

    • secularhumanizinevoluter April 21, 2012 at 7:04 pm #

      RR sez “Antonio, thank you for your perspective. Many things are about race, but that doesn’t mean that everything is about race. I sincerely believe this case is not about race.”

      Well there you have it Antonio.
      You just got the word from the end all be all know all on race relations in the United States. (and I want to personally thank him for setting us straight!)
      You are wrong.
      It isn’t about race.
      It’s about those ignorant, arrogant, offensive, hoodie wearing young Black males who don’t know their place and DARE to walk through good neighborhoods and scare pistol packing cop wannabees armed with Skittles and Iced Tea.
      Who then DARE to take offense at being stalked simply because they are Black and try to defend themselves.
      So don’t make that mistake again, you have been informed by RR, this is NOT about race!

      • Rick Roberts April 21, 2012 at 7:18 pm #

        Let’s just sit back and see who is right. It will be me. You are several screwdrivers short of a full toolbox.

        I do see that you are trying to make a good first impression on Antonio by not employing your usual invective, multiple exclamation marks, crazy-as-a-loon ALLCAPS, and made-up words. You do realize that’s how pre-teens and low-class whites type, right?

  26. Rick Roberts April 21, 2012 at 6:19 pm #

    Sec, you are an empty headed, fly-off-the-handle buffoon who can barely string two coherent sentences together. You talk about a compendium of all my posts and making a judgment as to whether I am a racist on based on that, but pity the poor soul who tries to read your rantings en masse.

    You rarely if ever respond directly to rebuttal from me or anyone else here because I really don’t think you can. It’s not in you to make a reasoned case or a reasoned response.

    So now crawl back to your damp, smoky, dusty hole, or wherever it is an old crank like you goes. Read a book every now and again.

    • secularhumanizinevoluter April 21, 2012 at 7:07 pm #

      What response is necessary? Your own words brand you for the racist you are?
      PLEASE anyone who is interested go back and read my responses over they years.
      Then read RR’s.
      Then tell us who comes across as a racist.

      • Rick Roberts April 21, 2012 at 7:19 pm #

        Waiting … zzz … crickets.

        Sec, you angry old coot.

  27. Antonio April 21, 2012 at 7:25 pm #

    Yeah…well… you know he could be right, as right as these times will allow, but I don’t think so, just my own personal opinion you understand. The thing with me is I’m so progressively positive about change in this country, that I have to intentionally focus on the negative realities in life to maintain a healthy mental balance.

    If Rick believes what he is saying then as I said before… I would L O V E to be wrong, and I mean that.

    • Rick Roberts April 21, 2012 at 7:41 pm #

      Thank you, Antonio. And I do concede that only a black man can really speak to what it is like to walk through life and be looked at askew no matter what you do to be presentable. I’m gay, but that can be hidden. I have also stipulated that I (and everyone) have prejudicial attitudes; that is animal nature. The key is not to allow that to become racism and bigotry. For me … and I am being as honest as I know how to be here … the prejudging is not based on race. It is based on race-PLUS. Race plus dress plus attitude. It is only that combination of things. My black neighbors react exactly the same way as I to a thug, and for what it’s worth, not all thugs in my neighborhood are black. Most of them are, but not all. I don’t understand why I have to be branded a racist for stating this.

      Upper class liberals of every color profile others. I mean, doesn’t the president himself send his girls to Sidwell Friends? Why not the DC Public Schools? And where did the Obamas live in Chicago? And look at Professor Gates. Where does he live? I think of my own black and brown friends who have done well for themselves. They live in exclusive, mostly white (but safe) neighborhoods here in Atlanta. That. Is. Profiling.

      So lay off, Sec, you old fool.

      • secularhumanizinevoluter April 21, 2012 at 11:16 pm #

        RR if it let’s you sleep better telling yourself you’re not racist snooze away.
        “the prejudging is not based on race. It is based on race-PLUS. Race plus dress plus attitude.”
        So “it is based on RACE plus? No, you’re not a racist…..so long as Blacks are willing to act White you are willing to let them exist, how very…..nice of you.
        Sweet dreams.

        • Rick Roberts April 21, 2012 at 11:31 pm #

          You stupid fuck. You don’t have a nuanced bone in your body.

          • secularhumanizinevoluter April 22, 2012 at 7:11 am #

            “the prejudging is not based on race. It is based on race-PLUS. Race plus dress plus attitude.”

            Seems you have the market cornered on “nuanced” skeletal parts’
            “It’s based on race-PLUS” DAMN that’s some subtle nuance you have going on there.
            You wouldn’t happen to be a Town Watch Captain would you? You seem to have the same calm, rational, “nuanced” PLUS attitude that seems to be a prerequisite for the self appointed job.

  28. secularhumanizinevoluter April 22, 2012 at 7:21 am #

    http://m.ajc.com/news/couple-held-at-gunpoint-1423138.html

    Looks like those neighbors sure understand some “nuance”. Just using ” It is based on race-PLUS. Race plus dress plus attitude.”
    He, wonder if they checked the old man for skittles?

    • Rick Roberts April 22, 2012 at 8:47 am #

      Sec, you don’t read well, and your research skills seem to be lacking as well. The AJC article said The Kalonjis didn’t have the closing papers with them, so deputies arrested them.

      The property the Kalonjis purchased was foreclosed and had been empty for quite a while but for squatters who kept occupying the place and driving up crime in the neighborhood. What were the neighbors supposed to think?

      I am still looking into this. What does this have to do with race? Sounds to me as if the neighbors were watching out for one another.

      • AliceP April 22, 2012 at 9:19 am #

        Closing papers with you when you move into a house you just bought? To show the neighbors and the police that you aren’t a “thug”?

        WOW

        • Rick Roberts April 22, 2012 at 9:37 am #

          Alice, take off those dark sunglasses, honey. They are blinding you.

  29. Rick Roberts April 22, 2012 at 9:05 am #

    Sec, this is prejudice: if I’m out with my dogs at night, as I often am, and see a man shuffling down the street or ambling about with his over-sized cap on sideways, his pants halfway to his ankles, an over-sized athletic jersey and walking so leaned back he’s very nearly kicking the back of his head, I’m going to assume he’s a rough customer and steer clear. I would do that whether he were black, white, asian, or purple with pink polka-dots. So would you.

    This a valid prejudice; it’s built into us. It is not bigotry. It is not racism. It is taking into account what the person chooses to show the world, not what he can’t help but show the world. Wearing those clothes is an expression of I am a thug. I’m looking for trouble. It is not racist to discriminate (choose) against this person by avoiding him, but it is prejudice. Justifiable prejudice. If you dress and behave like a thug, people are going to treat you like a thug, and that includes the police. It also means your are more likely to die like a thug. That is cold, hard reality, and you know it.

    I would have a very different reaction to someone walking down the street in a t-shirt, blue jeans that are properly belted around the waist, and sneakers or sandals.

    That’s what I mean by race-PLUS.

    • secularhumanizinevoluter April 22, 2012 at 12:11 pm #

      “I would have a very different reaction to someone walking down the street in a t-shirt, blue jeans that are properly belted around the waist, and sneakers or sandals.

      That’s what I mean by race-PLUS.”

      It is entertaining in a pathetic way to read your continuing efforts to explain how your racism isn’t racism, followed up with that beauty at the end. Are you really and truly that disconnected from your own words and mind?

      • Rick Roberts April 22, 2012 at 1:17 pm #

        Sec, I guarantee you the scenario I described above rings home to a good many people. You are simply impossible to get through to. An old coot. An angry old coot at that.

  30. Rick Roberts April 22, 2012 at 9:36 am #

    Devastating.

    From a legal standpoint, I don’t see the argument that Zimmerman profiled and followed Martin as having any chance of success, either in defeating self-defense or establishing any crime, let alone second degree murder.

  31. secularhumanizinevoluter April 22, 2012 at 12:14 pm #

    “Um, Jesse, Tourè, Al! We need you! Hurry, please!”
    Like I said, you just can’t help yourself, much like your information providers over at Faux Not News.

    • Rick Roberts April 22, 2012 at 1:15 pm #

      Sec, I was only thinking of you. I thought you might want to discuss a real hate crime instead of this conjured one. So how about it?

      By the way, I don’t watch Fox News, but nice try. I don’t even own a TV.

  32. secularhumanizinevoluter April 22, 2012 at 2:15 pm #

    “By the way, I don’t watch Fox News, but nice try. I don’t even own a TV.”
    No? funny that seems to be where you get your info from. Your completely irrelevant info that has nothing to do with Zimmerman and his actions.
    But your digging around for it and proudly posting it speaks volumes about you.

    • Rick Roberts April 22, 2012 at 2:45 pm #

      The story is from the Chicago Sun-Times Media Wire, you chucklehead.

  33. secularhumanizinevoluter April 23, 2012 at 9:28 am #

    http://news.yahoo.com/md-neighborhood-watch-trial-set-against-fla-fury-140920015.html

    There ya go skippy, and this was NOT pulled off of fauz not news.

    • Rick Roberts April 23, 2012 at 10:56 am #

      What does that have to do with this case, Skippy, and I told you already, doofus, that I don’t watch Fox News. I don’t even own a TV.

  34. secularhumanizinevoluter April 23, 2012 at 11:59 am #

    It has as much to do with it as your Faux not news piece. Only the flip side. As for not watching Faux not news, you sure sound like you get their talking points from them as well as using them for info.

.... a writer is someone who takes the universal whore of language
and turns her into a virgin again.  ~ erica jong