Bill Clinton on Gulf Catastrophe: ‘Blow Up the Well’
28 June 2010 7:11 pm by Taylor Marsh
“… Unless we send the Navy down deep, to blow up the well, and cover the leak with piles and piles and piles of rock and debris, which may become necessary. You don’t have to use a nuclear weapon by the way, I’ve seen all that stuff, just blow it up. Unless we’re going to that, we are dependent on the technical expertise of these people from BP. … “ – Pres. Bill Clinton
Obama’s getting a bum wrap, says former Pres. Bill Clinton. Then he goes on to talk about the empathy perception, but also the reality that with people unhappy with their own lives they’re not crazy about Pres. Obama, which happens to all presidents.
Pres. Clinton also becomes another voice to the blow the well up contingent, of which I became one weeks ago, when Matthew Simmons suggested it on Dylan Ratigan’s show.
I like former president Bill Clinton but I am going to disagree with him on why people are angry at president Obama and why he is getting a Bum Rap. President Obama did not show leadership when the oil spill happened. I still believe he should be down there more often to see what is happening and to talk with the families instead of the G20 in Canada and talking about free trade with South Korea. I don’t no much about blowing up the oil well,but it seems something needs to be done.
” something needs to be done ” Those words have caused more grief in this world than can be explained in a lifetime FairMinded. The second most dangerous words ever expressed by humans are ” hey, watch this!”
We are flying blind and with no instruments. There was no plan for a blow out at these depths. Since there was no plan, there were resources committed to that plan. We got nothing, we can’t even buy a clue.
Look at what Buba is saying; blow up the gusher and cover it with rocks. This is plan straight out of a Road Runner cartoon and we are Wile E. Coyote:
http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID16050/images/coyote.jpg
If the relief wells fail, then we might have to go to this extreme. Until that time let’s not hit the panic button. We really have not a clue what would happen to that well if we attempt to blow it up. We are in a place where physics, specifically the the physics of deep water, are deeply hostile and ostentatiously perverse to human interests.
Blow up the well? At the rate we are going, we will accidental awaken some deep sea monster from its millennial long slumber. We may just find out that the Kraken was not myth after all. This whole affair has been snake bit from day one. Do we really want to find out how deep into Murphy’s Law we can get?
The frustration that you express is warranted FairMinded, but some times discretion is the better part of valor. Let’s not make the situation any worse. Facile solutions are very comforting; but very often they are much worse than the problem they are trying to solve.
Your animosity towards “buba’ or bubba which is actually a nasty allusion as you obviously think Obama No Drama is elite and above a commoner like Clinton.
The Navy has all the facilities, sub atomic submarines, and much knowledge as to how to measure what is spilling into the Gulf and not rely on BP’s lies. The Navy who can direct the Coast Guard [currently unfocused and lacking strategy] can begin a Chain Of Command which is crucial in estimating the actual amts being spilled, containment and cleanup, and most certainly can blow up the well and cap it.
Navy has immense knowledge and resources.
The only underwater sea monster awakening here is your pranoia and lack of facts. Google the Navy’s abilities and resources to handle this.
Obama did virtually nothing for months, did not speak to BP CEO, ancd is still dithering the way Obama dithers. Now it’s just vague speeches and photo ops as the Gulf, it’s people and wildlife is being harmed more every second this is not dealt with.
BP is running the show??? Obamabots say discretion? There is no leadership or expertise here and the lack of relevance in has become obvious.
Obama is out of his element and clearly overwhelmed. His cadre of advisors are not capable of assessing the damage to his presidency as this was an opportunity to seize this tragedy
from day one and take over as he learned [openly] how to constuct a clear plan in view of all Americans. Especially those in the Gulf whose lives are being destroyed along with our land and its creatures.
Discretion? How about inexperience and cluelessness combined with dithering on just about everything including Salazar,Dept of Interior, and MMS that Obama promised to clean up when he ran for this job?
Well actually the HEAD of the military himself, Gates, admitted that as regards deep water operations the military does not have the expertise and equipment that big oil companies have. I think that as the HEAD of the military he is likely to be a reliable source. This is a fact, and its not Obama’s or Spincity’s fault.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=10824254
And there is a lot of coordinated effort, even though it could all be more efficient and is still not enough. Please browse the net, there is plenty of information out there on what the federal government and what BP is doing, both the good and the bad, but overall, if you are fair, you will find out that your description of the federal government under the direction of Obama taking a nap while the Gulf is drowning under a sea of oil is a bit of an overstatement.
The latest initiative, that is coordinated by BP and the Fed is described below. If it works, it will make a huge difference.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/29/gulf-oil-spill-a-whale-of_n_629575.html
The above might disapoint those who also think that Obama is an irrational fool who refuses all the foreign help that may make a difference. And just in case you are wondering why the skimmer is only arriving now, I hope that the huge size of the boat and the fact that it is coming from Taiwan will make you pause before blaming Obama for the delay.
First off Bubba ran as “Bubba;” a good ol’ boy from the south, who made good by being wicked smart. (Rhodes Scholar and all that.) But sometimes even wicked smart people say really, really, really stupid things. And Bubba did just that by blurting out “blow up the well and pour some rocks on it.”
My issue with Bubba and with Obama is they are BOTH DLC Corporatist Clowns and Blue Dog Democrat sell outs. Clear enough? Plus I will never forgive Bubba for literally getting caught with his pants down by Ken Starr. The man has no self control, never had it, never will.
I have no idea of this Navy of which you speak, the Navy I was in for 22 years had no such resources and no such mission. The subs I was aware of were excellent at blowing stuff up. Measuring oil flow from a ruptured well? Not so much.
The U.S. Navy may have access to contractors that have deep sea submersibles, but the Navy itself has no such assets. It has no plans nor procedures, no instructions, no expertise for handeling a deep sea well rupture. It has no wish be tasked with such a responsibility. It has no wish, nor the ability, to establish command and control of the sight. This is all Coast Guard, all the time. This is something the shallow water sailors are supposed to be expert at. Placing the Navy in charge of this operation is an epically foolish notion. It would make the situation worse.
To recap, I don’t need no stinking google. I know the organization that I was a part of for 22 years. I know its strengths and I know its weaknesses. I know the resources and the mission. I know the command and control structure. I know the Navy intimately. One more time, it is not the organisation that has either the tools nor mental hardware to deal with this situation. Not even in the movies.
Blowing up the well is a terrible idea wrapped in an internet meme — it’s indicative of the level of hysteria that has swept over this nation when we all collectively realized in one terrible accident that our technology and consumption habits have run well ahead of our judgment.
I hold a Ph.D. in Civil Engineering with a specialty in fluid mechanics. I am also a P.E., a licensed professional engineer, in that field.
I will gladly argue the technical foolishness of exploding the well with any qualified professional; not someone on an Internet message board, not a TV talking ahead, not a D.C. Beltway pundit, but a professional. I have made this challenge repeatedly, and no one has been brave enough to step forward and debate me.
I am surprised and disappointed that Ms. Marsh, whom I have become a big fan of, and whom I have tremendous respect for, is falling victim to this urban legend.
Just like other urban legends, there is that kernel of persuasiveness and a whole load of wishful thinking in the myth, only until we take a step back and realize that all doesn’t add up with the story.
Never mind that there is a real solution to this problem. And this has always been the only solution to the problem. It’s called the relief well(s).
BP has been reporting their progress. We can believe BP (or not) as we wish, but today they again report that they are ahead of schedule and have almost intercepted the well. From Miss huff ‘n Puff:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/28/gulf-oil-spill-bp-relief_n_628333.html
There are two relief wells being drilled. If these relief wells fail, then and only then do you consider irreversible Hollywood courses of action that run the risk of cataclysm should they fail.
My prediction? One or both of the relief wells will intercept the main well before August and all of a sudden people will forget about this much faster than they should.
As a master of the Universe and and a master in engineering fluid mechanics, etc you should offer your expertise to Obama. Or better yet to BP who you feel are doing a great job.
Anything BP says is suspect as they have continually fudged and lied about about this from day one. They had no containment solutions in place for a spill and assured all with the help of our corrupt MMS that they “could handle it”. Bp along with all other oil companies in deep water haven’t a clue as to how to stop this. They also assured us for a long time that this was never likely to happen.
At least the Navy has the facility to assess how much is spilling and can offer begtter contgainment. BP does not run this country. Unless we allow them to, and now see the results of this folly
” At least the Navy has the facility to assess how much is spilling and can offer begtter contgainment. ”
Actually no, Morris1030. The US Navy has no such capabilities. Not part of their mission, not their field of expertise.
What the Navy would have is a targeting solution to blow up the well. It is the shallow water sailors who should have ability to measure the oil flow. But that appears not to be the case as they have allowed BP to put out endlessly bogus information.
The Coast Guard is not part of the U.S. Navy and except in times of declared war is not even part of the Department of Defense ( nor its predecessor the Department of War ) It was part of the DOT (go figure) and before that, part of the Department of the Treasury. In time of declared war, the Coasties do fall under the Department of the Navy.
Blow up the well? Do we have any notion of what will happen to that well since it lies at such great depths? Do we have ordnance that can survive the crushing pressure of the deep sea? Or is that just another part of this science experiment from hell?
No insult meant to the great people of the Middle Kingdom, but this whole affair smacks of the world’s biggest and most confused Chinese fire drill. This is Wing-it Production’s performance of “The Wost Ecological Disaster Of All Time.”
We are so obviously flailing around in Gulf of Mexico; it is beyond farce and well into tragedy. We don’t have a clue, not the foggiest notion of how to solve this gusher of oil. Despite that fact people are still insisting that we drill more, and drill deeper in the ocean for oil. One would say that we are acting like completely addled crack heads; but that would be an insult to the crack heads.
Ordinance is fairly solid state. I think it could survive the crushing pressure.
The question is: how would you even get enough ordinance 10,000ft down the narrow pipe?
The well, below the immediate surface, is in tact. If you blow that to pieces and/or fracture the seabed, oil would then leak up uncontrollably through all the tiny fissures and cracks for the rest of time or until the well is exhausted. As long as the well is in tact, it is leaking from one place where it can be intercepted and collected.
” how would you even get enough ordinance 10,000ft down the narrow pipe?”
Targeting is the least of your concerns. Mark 48 ACAP Torpedoes could get plenty close to the well-head. The bear is the distance to target and if the systems that guide the ordnance could survive pressures they were never intended to work in.
The concern I have is what you outlined in other areas of the post. The shattering of the seabed by the explosives could make this a much worse problem. Since you have the training and the pocket-protectors, I will differ to your engineering knowledge.
Getting the stuff that goes “boom” is not really that much of an issue. Push comes to shove, deep sea submersible could place a specially formed charge on top of the well head. What happens after the boom, that is anyone’s guess. Not being a civil engineer nor even playing one on TV, I will just defer to that great philosopher Mr. Murphy and his iron law. There is no disaster that the use of copious explosives can not make much, much worse.
I don’t own a pocket protector, nor a slide rule.
“The concern I have is what you outlined in other areas of the post. The shattering of the seabed by the explosives could make this a much worse problem.”
That is my concern too. Remember, Lawrence Livermore Laboratories, our best minds in the country, have been tasked with analyzing this problem.
Their concerns are the same as ours: shattering the seafloor is a very grave risk.
Step One:
_ Blow up the well
_ _ (make the hole bigger)
Step Two:
_ Dump garbage on it
Um.
Exactly why do we need to make the hole bigger before we dump garbage on it?
Just curious.
Brilliant pmcihael, just brilliant! Why indeed?
Love how all you armchair physicists give your two cents..
There’s much more to an explosion than making a bigger hole…
I’m not arguing for it.. the only one who seems to have the credentials to argue for or against is FMS.. And that would be interesting to see/read.
meant NFS.. Sorry FS…
and meant sorry NFS…
“Love how all you armchair physicists give your two cents..”
Three attempts to get your comment right and you call us “armchair”?
I simply asked a question -
- and I somehow managed to do so with only one attempt.
LOL
Nothing else to offer pmichael except to complain about my typos which I tried to correct?
I’ve done my part to show that I’m open to solutions…
You, however… have professed knowledge… that you don’t have. A high horse you are on.
If I turn on a garden hose full blast, turn it upright, and try to dump trash on it, would that stop the flow of water? No.
I’m in agreement with you (I’m electrical… but I took fluid dynamics as well)…
However, I don’t profess to have the knowledge to argue this.
Ask me about a transistor instead…
How about 100,000 steal balls like they used for the 1979 Ixtoc disaster.
I don’t know anything about steel balls…
I imagine they could try and drop them down the pipe in hopes that they’d get stuck and reduce the flow, but the oil in this well is under tremendous pressure and could possibly blow them back out like a shotgun.
I do know that the Ixtoc disaster was only stopped once a relief well came online.
The relief well was the solution then, and it will be the solution this time.
That was the “junk shot” and it failed.
I thought they were rubber balls?
And for that approach, they were mixed in with heavy mud.
clinton has put the issue of blowing up the well front and center. it is the only tool the govt has unless bp is actually not lying about the relief wells. although more is being done here on the gulf in terms of skimmers etc we still are waiting for much more. sen bill nelson the other day we have over 40 navy skimmers still docked around the nation and have not been ordered to deploy. he also still asserts we arent doing enough to gain comand of the situation. if nelson – who also has said he fears the well is too compromised and the casing it already warped an dleaking in the canyon we got a beyond belief crisis. expect to hear more about this notion of blowing up the well. i just dont trust bp to fix this.
Tex4Hill,
Those Navy skimmers are already spoken for. They are part of the Naval Station’s response for a spill in the bays or local oceans they are docked at. Plus many are very inconveniently deployed. My guess is that local Naval assets near Pensacola, Florida and NavSta Mayport are already deployed as are resources from Meridian. Thus, you would have to go much further afield for assistance.
The next closest units would be all the way up in Norfolk and NAB Little Creek. That is all the way in Virgina. Assets in your neck of the woods, Texas, are unfortunately no longer available as BRAC did in NavSta Ingleside. As the only vessels there were tiny little Mine Sweepers, Ingleside would not have had much to offer, even if it were still a going concern.
From there it gets even dicier. The next Naval assets are parked out all the way in sunny San Diego, California. It would be a major pain in the butt to deploy those assets to the Gulf. You would have to go through the Panama Canal or worse yet around the horn. As the skimmers are not the most sea-worthy of vessels, so you would have to ship them out on even bigger ships to get them to the Gulf. The logistics of getting skimmers from the Pacific are very challenging. When you add in the further distance of the next U.S. Navy assets, way up in the Puget Sound of Washington state, it gets a might ridiculous.
If shipping skimmers from Washington state is a bridge too far, then what do you call the next set of U.S. Navy assets? They are floating in Pearl Harbor, all the way out in Hawaii. I call it ” Not even in the movies.”
Oh, and don’t get me started on the definition of “skimmer.” Some of the Navy skimmers are very tiny affairs only good for light service in sheltered waters.
My guess is most of the “skimmers” that are under discussion are Fleet Ocean Tugs.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/tatf-166.htm
Again, these ships are already spoken for as they support the mission of various warships of the U.S. Navy. It would be expensive and difficult to find civilian replacement for these purpose-built ships. Tex4Hill, the useful assets of the U.S. Navy have most likely already been deployed. Talk of 40 extra vessels is just that, talk. If they were useful they would already be deployed.
The compromise to the well is superficial. It does not extend 10,000 feet down below the surface at the relief well point of intercept.
The Commander In Chief needs to appoint a Commander In Chief for
coordinating a cleanup and using all the skimmers currently not in use. Obama has made no plan, no strategy and continues to dither and distance himself as he doesn’t want to own this.
There is no coordinated effort.
morris1030
One more time, those skimmers are spoken for. They are part of a response plan for the local bays, inlets, shores, etc. where they are based. To ship them off to the Gulf would leave local response bare of resources.
Secondly getting many of those skimmers on sight would more trouble than it is worth. You have to put them on heavy lift ships that have other missions and other jobs in line. You then have to set up logistics to support those ships far from their home ports.
Supporting ships at sea is no trivial matter. Even being able to support ships with COTS ( Commercial Off The Shelf) items is no easy matter. Supporting ships that adhere to MilSpec requirements is a freaking nightmare. I did it for three years at a purpose-built facility in San Diego called SIMA. Items can have lead times of 250 days and then some. You have no idea what “fun” it is to find sourcing for something as simple as a MilSpec motor generator. Been there, done that, got the freaking t-shirt, multiple times. And the motor controllers for those MilSpec motors? ( Think on/off switches from hell, purpose-built, with specs from the Korean War) Woo-who, fun, fun,fun getting parts for those beasts. I’d rather have my teeth extracted without the benefit of Novocain.
This meme about unused skimmers is pure crap. Even if were true, which it is not, it is not a simple matter of nominating a skimmer czar or some such. You have to build a logistical chain out of whole cloth to support them. This is no trivial matter. Even at a command who’s whole reason for being was to fix ships and get them deployed on time, we had to pull some major miracles and bend the rules into ungodly shapes just to accomplish the mission. Now take that difficulty and multiply it by a thousand and you would have the hurdle the logistical chain would have to support ships in the Gulf. My guess is that the supply types at Meridian, Ms. and Pensacola, Fl are already running at full-tilt-boogie just trying to support the assets we already have there.
Again, I understand the frustration you have with our efforts in the Gulf, I share them. Obama has been lackadaisical and gullible, depending far too much on the good graces of BP. Still, that does not change the central fact that his oil-disaster-response cupbord was bare. We had no plan B for a blow out at these kinds of depths. We had no resources. We had a “plan” xeroxed by BP that had no connection to reality. Our options suck. We have to wait for the relief wells to be drilled. There is more than enough to fault Obama for; but the 40 skimmers not being used? Pure, undiluted, bull puckey.
This is OT but what a pig!
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/06/28/steve-forbes-byrd/
Post that bad-boy as a separate topic Lake Lady! Yikes, what a schmuck this Steve Forbes is!
texan4hillary, if there are 40 skimmers just sitting around, why isn’t Obama deploying these? Who is in charge of acquiring the skimmers??? BP? Obama? Admiral? WHO? THe news is being controlled so the average person doesn’t know who is in charge. That is what is making me mad. I grew on the coast of the Gulf of Mexico, innocent dolphins amongst thousands of others are being killed not only by the oil but the dispersant. THe EPA has told BP to stop spraying it and yet it continues…I blame Obama for this…he has enough guts to fire a General, but not enought to get BP to stop lying and using the dispersants. Why can’t Obama just put one person other than the General who answers to WHO? that will have the ability to make all decisions.
ok, So my question was answered above…what about the new Taiwanese ship that is sitting awaiting for the EPA to approve it??? It is supposed to be in Norfolk. It seems to me that if all these countries have volunteered their oil sweepers, how did they think they were going to get them to the gulf???
dsue
Hello and welcome aboard as we used to say in the The World’s Greatest Navy (TM, Reg Pat Off)
Same problem dsue as outlined before. Oil skimmers for the most part are not designed for long haul operations. Getting across the swath of water known as the Atlantic is a very dicey proposition for these ships. They might have to be shipped via other ships like the Mighty Servant 3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mighty_Servant_3
Smaller vessels could be lifted by US Naval assets like our LHAs or LPD / LSD. Deploying those assets is no easy task and getting odd shaped cargo like skimmers safely into the well of those ships is no easy task.
While the offers by our foreign allies is heart warming it more a gesture of support than anything else. I don’t think that there has been any game-playing of this scenario. Control of the seas, already difficult with all the hardware out there, becomes even harder when you bring in foreign masters of ships who don’t know local rules of the road. Add in the issue of language and you have even more headaches. Then there is the logistical question of how you support those odd-ball ( from a U.S. perspective ) ships and their weird ( again from a U.S. perspective) requirements. The logistical chain for a ship home-ported in Asia would be a nightmare for the purser tying to achieve that feat.
I have no idea about the Taiwanese ship of which you speak. But EPA approval (and USCG approval) are not things to be short-circuited. If the ship has some utility, then everything is being done to expedite the process.
Please note that that Taiwanese ship would have some of the issues already outlined. Putting a ship on station is one thing dsue, supporting a ship for any length of time is a totally different item. You have to have not only food and fuel, but a ready supply of spare parts for the inevitable breakdowns. As the ship is fresh out of shipyard, the logistics of supporting it are no easy task. Newly commissioned U.S. Navy ships go through a full year of “shake-down cruises” before they get bashed with a bottle of champaign. The year after that is spent getting the last bugs out of the system. With there automated systems, civilian merchant vessels also have teething problems fresh out of the box, as it were. U.S. authorities are most likely going over their check-lists. They are testing systems and personnel to make sure that no obvious hiccups exist. Forgive the pun but they are making sure that everything is ship-shape. The ship is a long way from home and most of the technical support is back in Taiwan. If something goes “bonk” on the ship (and something is always going “bonk” on ships) no one here may be able to fix it. Whatever this ships capabilities, it does us no good to have it floating out in the Gulf dead in the water because some widget died an ugly death. ( And ships widgets are always dieing an ugly and inconvenient deaths )
Back to the main question , the offer of the skimmers by foreign flags is more a gesture of sympathy and support than anything else. As such those gestures should not be rejected out of hand, but understood as a expression of concern and fellow-feeling. Diplomacy is done by such sweet nothings.
Thank you.
I am sure there are resources that were offered but not used. But I also believe that most of these stories are simply gestures and not practical solutions. A falsehood can get halfway around the world before the truth can catch up with it.
As you said, we have lots of skimmers here, and it is no easy feat to get these other skimmers across the ocean.
And we haven’t suffered enough disaster by circumventing government regulations already?
Blowing up the well is not what it sounds like…it is a controlled demolition. The charges are placed along the drill pipe to collapse it.
How can it be determined if collapsing it will work at these depths. Again, we are in unknown territory.
I’d love to see a full debate on this subject from high-level qualified engineers.
You blow up the top of the well, and the soil collapses on the gushing well.
The hope would be that the weight of the collapsed seafloor on top of the oil pipe would be enough to contain the oil.
The problem is the oil in this well is under tremendous pressure. It would find any crack or crevice to escape from. So if it doesn’t work, you would have oil leaking out of all these cracks for all time, and zero chance of containing it.
Do we know… or can we determine.. this pressure?
Even if we can, I imagine that it is impossible to identify weak spots along the pipe.. especially after the shortcuts BP took while drilling…
that is what sen nelson wants to know. this nation used to do the greatest tasks and feats. now we cant mobilize thousands to save our coast. what happened sacrafice for nation? you wont hear it from dc. taylor is right- we are in the age of small. the age of the 3rd depression.
Forget DC, you won’t hear it from America. We may talk big, but We have become small.
I cannot blame DC for our cultural failures, specifically our atrophied ability to sacrifice as a nation.
Who is willing to pay $4, $5, $6 a gallon for gas? Who is willing to volunteer to help clean the cost? Polls show very few are.
No one will save us but ourselves.
” No one will save us but ourselves ” NFS
Yup, and that will only happen when some of us decide that we care more about the fate of the nation than “winning” some pointless culture war. I have no idea how we get right wingers to stop hippie bashing and drinking hateraide. Amanda Marcotte is right, they seem much more interested in pissing off Liberals than offering any real solutions. Exactly what is the cure for bitterness? What is the treatment for a dark and hateful soul? How do you get these people to stop being the equivalent of a self-absorbed, overly-privileged, thumb-sucking, emotionally stunted and contrarian early teen-ager? Sweet reason sure does not work.
” we cant mobilize thousands to save our coast”
That’s right Tex4Hill, we can’t. We can’t because we listened to a nice grade B actor who told us that ” Government is the problem.”
Thus, for thirty years we let the public sphere rot and Crony Capitalism go wild. This disaster has a long pedigree Tex4Hill.
We did this to ourselves, we let a nice man tell us facile fairy tales. It was morning in America again, and the business of business was business. Its been on long party and now the bill has come due. And many of us still don’t want to pay up or let the party end. Drill baby, drill, they chant.
Too many people have bought into the Republican / Movement Conservative meme that there is no us, no society. They have bought into the idea that the market is the final arbiter of everything. You saw it on 9/12 or 9/13 when our shrub-in-chief stated that the correct response of an awakened nation was to “go shopping.’ Now, with that as background you are surprised that we can’t protect our precious and irreplaceable Gulf Coast?
This disaster has been a long time coming. It is just another symptom of the hollowing out of the public sphere. It is just another example of privatizing profit while socializing loss.
Our system of government is broken. Our society is broken. And because of that a gusher of oil continues to ruin the Gulf Coast.
Good point: we can’t consume our way out of this disaster.
This has been a wonderfully amusing thread -
_ kind of like listening to a kindergarten class trying to cure cancer. *L*
I guess it’s great therapy for those involved – thinking they have the million dollar answers (which WOULD make them plenty if they were anywhere Close to the actual answer) – or just bitching because no one else has. What fun.
BP made the horrible discovery you can ‘light a fart’ – except this time it was the planet itself that farted. Then they LIED for weeks about how serious it was – and their ability to handle it.
Obama made the mistake of believing them. I’m betting he greatly regrets that now. Too damn ‘trusting’.
But now we must listen to the pedantic whining that he can’t wave his magic wand and cure the whole problem. He can obviously get there easily, as he can walk on water. So why hasn’t he STOPPED this stuff?
Finding someone to ‘blame’ seems to be Project One these days.
Blaming Obama is simply ridiculous.
Whatever… Most of the posts that I have read tonight are about looking for solutions.
You… however… are reading something else…
Here’s your “something else”, m’luv _
“President Obama did not show leadership when the oil spill happened.” fairmindedindependant
“You, however… have professed knowledge… that you don’t have. A high horse you are on.” whitepaw
Nonsense.
Never claimed such knowledge. In fact I was the ‘Business Card’ for Ignorance on the subject.
My complaint was regarding YOUR apparent insistence that the solution should come so simply.
“I’d love to see a full debate on this subject from high-level qualified engineers.”
Yeah – like that’s not happening. *L*
Meant on this board…
pmichael – You need to become more informed on this issue; at the very least the Rolling Stone article would give you firmer footing, but that article is just one of many that sheds light on Pres. Obama and Int. Sect. Salazar’s responsibility.
It’s disturbing that your comments also devolve into personal attacks about “pedantic whining” that posits the absurd notion about some “magic wand.”
People have a right to expect their tax dollars to be used in productive manner. Obama and Salazar have a lot to answer for on the management side of the BP blowout. It’s not “whining” to demand accountability. You’re simply wrong.
“Whatever… Most of the posts that I have read tonight are about looking for solutions.”
What I’m ‘reading’ are pitiful attempts by ‘transistor’ people such as yourself (do you even know how a semiconductor works? or what CMOS stands for *L*) – “looking for solutions”.
Your enthusiasm is wonderful.
I wish you luck.
But your “Whatever” speaks volumes.
_ tick _ tick _
Waiting now, while she looks up CMOS. *giggle*
troll.
LOL
Not.
G’nite, whitepaw.
I sincerely hope I have some time in the future for more of such silly and amusing arguments.
Your personal insults are unhelpful, add nothing to the debate, not to mention are condescending, pmichael.
I’m sorry, Taylor. You know I can get carried away sometimes – but I just find it amusing when people seem to think the ’solutions’ are (or can be) all right here on TM.com
It’s fun discussion, but I have my doubts as to the “solutions” suddenly being here and lost everywhere else.
I’ll try to be nicer, though.
WOW..
I guess my armchair comment and whatever comment hit a button.. oh and the high horse thing.
I really don’t see any reason to give my credentials to you, pmichael, or defend my knowledge of re: my profession. It’s on a “need-to-know” basis. NFS and I have had short conversations about it in the past as we both work in engineering (yet unrelated). Whether you believe me or not is irrelevant.
As NFS has an advanced understanding of fluid mechanics and has worked as a civil engineer I was trying to invite someone else with a similar background to join the debate. Maybe you are that person and you’re just holding out?
I still do work as a Civil Engineer!
Not in oil exploration, though. Which is why there is a very clear limit to the insight I can offer.
This guy is trolling. You have been very helpful in trying to advance the discussion.
trolling?
Me?
LOL
Yeah, for about 10 years.
I know you are not a troll.
Who said that all the answers will be found here?
Just that it is nice to learn from those more knowledgable than me on this issue.
Blowing up the well is a stupid and thoughtless solution offered by uninformed politicians who don’t understand the first thing about the science of the earths crust. Now let’s watch the insults and condescending comments roll in. Peace
not from me.
Well… let me clarify. From my perspective, you could have said that you think it is a stupid idea (and why you think it is stupid… and thoughtless). But again, that’s just me.
Your objection is about my choice of adjectives? Subsitute one of these then: dumb, unintelligent, simpleminded, rattle-brained, idiotic, imbecilic, moronic. Peace
No — I’m obviously not being clear. I wanted to know “why” you think it is stupid. NFS has already offered a lot of details about why… just wondering if you have any more details.
There are some computer models that suggest that an explosion–any explosion–in that well hole would create hundreds, if not thousands, of fissures along the top of the oil pool that would gush oil for the next 50 years or more. There is some evidence that the piping in the well hole has already collapsed and that the relief wells will prove fruitless. This may prove to be the end of the ocean echo systems around the world. What sort of events were the Bible writers speaking about when they wrote about biblical disasters? “No more water. Fire next time.” What if all of the earth’s oceans burst into flames? Peace
That’s what I’ve heard as well (fissures and possible well hole collapse).. So depressing as there is the possibility of no solution… at all.
The integrity of the piping is not an issue with regards to the relief well. On this point you are incorrect. The relief well intercepts piping 10,000 feet below the surface. The damage to the piping is superficial, near the surface of the well.
You are however correct in that physicists fear that detonating an explosion near the surface would lead to an uncontrolled leak from a myriad of fissures that would continue in perpetuity until the well ran dry.
That makes sense… about the depth where the relief well intercepts the pipe.
Exactly how deep is the pipe (where it intercepts the oil source)? I’m certain I can look this up myself… but if you have the answers handy..
Also — Isn’t actually intercepting the pipe at these depths tricky as well? I know that’s the reason for drilling two… but they can both miss, right?
Imhotep, and you are informed…how’s that. I actually watched an Army guy say that he has done it and he explained it and he says it might be the only thing that will stop it.
Your announcing that everyone else doesn’t know what their talking about isn’t helping.
I will look and see if I can find the video and I will post it, if I can here…not sure if I can though…most people don’t post articles here.
Hi dsue — You can post a link to the video..Would be curious to see it.
From the oil experts I’ve engaged some think it’s the only choice, because quite a few do not believe the relief well is anywhere close to a slam dunk.
But as NSF says correctly, the downside is what’s scaring everyone off. Please, post any article (fair usage applies), link, etc. that you want NSF. Thanks.
If you want to see how irresponsible and inhumane the oil companies are read the article on the oil spills in the Niger Delta that have been going on for the last 50 years. We can only be thankful that the US is as powerful as it is and can bring pressure on BP to clean up the mess in the Gulf. The Nigerian people who live in the areas where oil is drilled do not have that advantage. They are living in a cesspool of pollution and misery.
http://tinyurl.com/3a3by6m
And no one ever gave those a headline.
But when it happens to us, oh noes, its BPocalypse.
Ms. Marsh talked about being “small”. This is one more indication of just how “small” we have become as a nation, that we only care about the problems of this world when they affect us directly.
NFS – I was in the Niger Delta in the 80s. At that time I thought what I saw was a devastating. I couldn’t believe that people were living with that ungodly oil spill. I haven’t been back since then but I can only imagine how horrible it must be now. All my colleagues who traveled to the Niger Delta wrote, as I did, about what we were seeing in the Trip Reports that were required by the Agency for International Development. We were in maternal/child health care and we couldn’t fathom that mothers and children were living in conditions like those observed. No one cared enough to do anything about it. Why should they? This was Nigeria, not America. I am saddened because I think we have lost our humanity in this country and it scares me.
JA, you’re exactly right. Thank you for highlighting the problem in the Niger Delta. The problem is much worse now.