TM-DC Podcast: Obama at the Brink
16 December 2009 12:36 am by Taylor Marsh
The latest podcast is up.
TM-DC Podcast
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Afghanistan meets health care, the little lies edition, with culture on the side. Your humble hostess quite pissed off at the moment. Long ago realizing that whatever happens in Congress is likely a foregone conclusion, with Pelosi’s behavior regarding Stupak-Pitts foreshadowing of worse to come, which certainly has at this point. Sen. Nelson still waiting for his Lieberman prize, which, if done, will come on the backs of women. Ezra Klein and Joe Klein could care less, their access still intact. Women’s issues so petty, really. Dr. Howard Dean someone, who knows health care inside and out, the latest target of the Pass Anything coalition.
Some of you may remember Betsy, who came to this site after the primary season. She commented on my Facebook page yesterday:
Lieberman is disgusting. I’m furious with the entire Democratic party. To think I switched party for change, what a damn laugh. I agree with Howard Dean. vote down the bill in the Senate. Harry Reid is a creep and a sleaze. THese guys all are just concerned with themselves, not the American people.
Congressional Democrats, meanwhile, feel they have to save Pres. Obama, otherwise the next few years are going to be brutal. Besides, that’s their job.
But writing that Democrats have to save Pres. Obama, otherwise the next few years are going to be brutal is quite a turn around from where this all began. Remember? The wind was at Obama’s back, the world at his feet, with articles being written that conservatism was done. That’s how badly Barack Obama has mismanaged his first year in office.
The ABC/Washington Post poll came out after I taped the podcast. It’s bad news for Obama, except for his moves on Afghanistan, which he solidified from Oslo, something that is a relief in my view. An excerpt:
On the economy, 52 percent disapprove, a majority for the first time. On the deficit, his worst score, 56 percent disapprove. Such numbers aren’t unexpected; Ronald Reagan, in similar economic straits, dropped to 52 percent overall approval at this point in his presidency. But it’s not just the economy: Fifty-three percent also disapprove of Obama’s work on health care, and the public by 51-44 percent now opposes the reform package in Congress – both more than half for the first time in ABC/Post polls.
The erosion in Obama’s standing has been driven by continued slippage among political independents, particularly among independent men. For the first time, a majority of independents disapprove of his overall job performance, and independents’ disapproval of his handling of health care and the economy now tops six in 10.
Believe it or not, the American people are not as stupid as politicians think. Even if they don’t get the health care legislation in it’s entirety, since no one yet knows what the bill will look like, they can sure as hell sense that politicians leading this parade toward a cliff don’t either. Looking at their own lives they also know one thing. People can’t afford for things to get worse for their families. So the convoluted conversation coming at them on big ticket items like health care and the economy is just not selling. It sounds like too big a gamble.
It’s been a long time since I’ve been this pissed off, which is evident in the podcast. Hard to swallow how thoroughly the Democrats have botched the health care debate, with Pres. Obama now asking all of us to suck it up for him. Because if he doesn’t get this bill passed the humiliation will be epic, as will the thunderous applause from the right.
There is no way, however, Pres. Obama or the Democrats have earned the benefit of the doubt on faith that they will improve this current nightmare of legislation, so I’m convinced that giving them a pass would just enable them. Sending a message that no matter how badly they suck we have to support them, because they’re better than the wingnuts.
However, if we’re not getting anything progressive, while being asked to save these idiots after one incompetent move after another, I’m just not feeling how that gets us anywhere but another trip round the hamster wheel.
Obviously, I’ve got some cooling off to do.
what makes me the most sick is all these yrs i thought we had some in congress who would stand up for us. like sen brown. like sen harkin. like feingold. now? watching brown try and peddle this dog shit on tv today was sad. people arent dumb. they have figured it out. wait till they hear about obama killing cheaper drugs in the senate today. dean on olberman effectively debunked the sen bill and worse for the party- his soundbites on what obama is doing will liekly be used in gop ads in 2010.
i sit here, as a frmr colllege dems pres and pct chair, wondering what in the hell have i worked so hard for? for this? im disgusted.
rep weiner slams obama for not standing up for the principles of the dem party.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126090148311592367.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLTopStories
Excellent post Taylor…
When you have the wind at your back and the people with you, you take advantage of it and lead. What Obama did was slow the momentum down by being too bipartisan to a side that doesn’t want him to succeed anyway. He should have been “Tom the Hammer DeLaying” his own wayward conservadems. And Lieberman – well, there’s just no words for him at the moment that are suitable. That goes for Nelson, too. That the president has to cowtow to them is mind boggling. I know Bill Clinton would say the bill has to be passed so that the Democrats get to control the narrative but this is a hard pill to swallow. I don’t have confidence that they would actually try to improve upon the bill at a later point.
I sent this fax to Joe Lieberman
Mr. Lieberman
I used to like you and approved of your actions as a senator until the last few years when you supported John McCain, and now you refuse to support a strong public option, or single payer, or even a medicare buy in.
http://bit.ly/traitorjoe
Now I consider you a flunky for the health insurance companies in your state of Connecticut and a traitor to Jewish people like me in the middle class.
I consider you a Quisling and an opportunist, and many people agree with my assessment of you. I will find out your campaign contributors that do business OTHER than health insurance, and encourage people to boycott those companies. I promise that through peaceful boycotts your friends in other industries will suffer the loss of our business unless you get single payer enacted into law.
When you meet God many decades from now, I hope he turns you into a golem and puts you on the shelf in his den to laugh at you.
Thanks for nothing Joe Lieberman.
You don’t need to calm down Taylor. Seems to me you’re calling it just about right. Obama gets lots of insurance money for this piece of crap, and so does the Democrats, thus keeping them well financed.
It’s really all about money and power folks, that’s it. It has nothing to do at all with policy, or what’s in the best interests of the country. The only folks in Washington who ever look foolish are the true believers who haven’t figured this out yet. Doesn’t matter what your political stripe is, both parties have come to the conclusion that the US treasury is nothing more than a piggybank to be raided over and over to support their benefactors…. That’s it.. that’s our politics in a nutshell. The power to hold the purse is the only thing that matters.
Watching dems on tv last night selling this piece of crap made me realize that they really don’t care what the bill looks like, that its all been one big reality show with about as much substance, except in both cases the outcome had been pre-determined. Stupak, Pelosi, Baucus, Grassley, and yes, even Sarah all had their parts to play with Joe being the grand diva of all.
but your President is getting the bill he crafted in the Senate finance committee. I think Chuck Todd is a tool, but he basically has said all along that the finance bill was the bill. Looks like he’s right.
In the words of the immortal Johnny Rotten “Ever feel like you been cheated?”
Change you can believe in
hah!
All of you Progressives and Liberals got played. You bought whole hog into Obama’s shuck and jive on health care and he played all of you for the suckers that he knew you were. And except for a very few of them you got played by every Democratic Senator as well. Obama also played all of you like a finely tuned fiddle on the Afghanistan troop surge as well. That decision was probably the single worst decision in this country’s history. Wait until the chickens(financial and deaths) begin to come home to roost on that one. You Liberals and Progressives are none too smart when it comes to playing hardball politics are you? That’s too bad for you and for the country as a whole. Peace
Well we can either get really pissed or we can accept that we have a ruling oligarchy comprised of big money interests and their congressional enablers.Now they got a full fledged corporist in the White House with their Nike ads. Short of a taxpayers revolt which would be very hard since for most of us our taxes come out before we get our check,it is hard to see a way forward.
I would love it if Dean became the insurgent again and ran a primary against Obama. Reagan did it to Bush 1 so it is not unheard of,the question is if Dean is willing to go against the establishment in total.He certainly owes the party nothing after the way he has been treated the Obama Mafia who currently rules.
…been treated BY the Obama Mafia….
Imhotep..I don’t think a person currently commenting on this site (I can’t speak for the readers who don’t comment) bought the whole hog at any time. Most of that group ran for the hills when Taylor dared to criticize “the precious” to use a term coined by Archangel during the primary.
Not believing a single word that this clown in a suit, Obama, says might also be of help. If you want to jack this ‘conman’ up, Obama that is, you might try contacting Senator Bernie Sanders and Russ Feingold and telling them to vote “NO” on the health care bill. Crippling Obama politically could be the most patriotc thing that you do in your lifetime. Peace
Imhotep
No, we didn’t all BUY Obama’s shuck and jive. We weren’t all bamboozled, hoodwinked – and we didn’t all fall for the same old okie-dokie.
Obama ran a cynical and dishonest campaign. The DNC was the one who fell for the old okie-doke. They were hoodwinked and so bamboozled that while they yelled and placed their hands over their heart in honor of “the RULES” – the never the less followed the political version of the pied piper and suspended their rules so they wouldn’t have to follow their rules (must have had their fingers crossed on one hand while the other was pledged to their heart).
Imhotep
Since you seem out their pointing your finger at Liberals and progressives indicating you aren’t one – what are you? What ownership do you as a citizen take?
MONEY bought the DNC and brought Obama. He’s trying towatch out for the money that foisted him upon the novice voter.
Your’s is a righteous anger Taylor. But, I’ll bet that the WH and DNC have no notion of the depth and breadth of that rightly deserved anger. Personally, I’ve never felt such betrayal and hopelessness.
I know of at least a few people “on this site” who believe that surging 30,000 troops into Afghanistan and expanding that war was, and is, a good idea. Do you, Lake Lady, count yourself among them? Peace
Great post, Taylor. And this:
“Sending a message that no matter how badly they suck we have to support them, because they’re better than the wingnuts.”
The classic and smug “you have no where else to go” argument is alive and well among the Dems. As is LL’s reference to the corporate reality, I’d say of DC in general.
Contacting our Elected Elites and letting them know our concerns, anger, expectations, is one “thing to do.” What else?
djjl, Obama played the system—-fair and square. It was all about the delegate count and winning in caucus states. Hillary ran a lousy campaign because she focused on a “big state” strategy. She would have been all done after New Hampshire except that “her side” executed a well orchestrated vote fraud operation in that state by surrpressing and stealing Obama votes. Hillary ain’t no better than Obama in the honesty department. Or in the “I’ll cut your throat at the right time” department. And she is a raving warmonger on top of it all. Peace
Imhotep
NOTHING TO DO WITH HILLARY AND WHATEVER LOUSY CAMPAIGN SHE RAN!!!!!!!!!!
You, Imhotep continue to show how much you don’t know. You apparently don’t know much about politics, political history or the system.
SUBTRACT ANYONE NAMED CLINTON FROM IT ALL – and consider what is said. I don’t spend very much time thinking about any Clinton. Surely not as much as you since you try to work in a slam at a Clinton whenever possible. You don’t even need truth on your side.
Why don’t you answer the question = what is it you call yourself if not progressive or liberal? Or is it that you consider yourself as the commoner elevated to divine status – thus your namesake Imhotep.
djjl, “I don’t spend very much time thinking about any Clinton.” Then why do you care what I say, or how often, about Hillary or Bill? “Me dost think that you protest too much.” (Or something Shakespearean.) So that you’ll end your temper tantrum I’ll tell you that I’m a religious anarchist philosophically. Please be more kind to the historical Imhotep. Did you know that if you chant the names of Imhotep, Amenhotep, Zoroaster, Buddha, Confucius, Christ and Muhammad, 7 times in succession that your fondest non-evil and non-self-serving wish will be granted? Peace
Because you sound like a broken record and a waste of time to read. It helps to understand what I am saying if you don’t automatically assume some Clinton angle. It really isn’t all about Clinton. You did miss a few days of Clintonphobia and were worth reading.
I tell you that I’m a religious anarchist and give you the keys to the Kingdom and you respond with a comment about “Clintonphobia?” You simply must crawl into your mind for awhile and sort things out, good sir or madam. But, be warned that if you don’t take a flashlight (that’s a code word) in there with you, you may never find your way out. Peace
BBL
Imhotep…does that mean you are religious or does your anarchy include religion?
In answer to your question…no I don’t think I support the troop surge and I don’t think I support the curent strategy. Taylor says we are doing nation building but considering the history and tribal nature of Afganistan it seems to me that any effort a building a centralized national state is impossible.
I do believe that there is danger in the middle east to our country and to other democracies but it seems to me that occupation will only increase it.
I do agree with you that our treatment of the people of Palestine is unequal and unfair. I tend to agree with Jimmy Carter on this issue. I have to admit that my knowledge is superficial at best.
As I recall, the majority of the posters here took exception to my correct assessment of the Obama Administration, early on. When Hillary lost, most here jumped right on the Obama bus. I was insulted and maligned for my faxdinatioon with Dennis Kucinich, and Ron Paul, who both exhibited honest conviction, and were therefore sidelined from the process by the media.
To forward the premise that a good many of you were not hoodwinked by this posturing fraud Obama is ridiculous, and an archive search will disprove such disingenuous assertions.
And to argue that Hillary is not as representatrive of the status quo as Obama is, is, once again, ridiculous. I do agree that she might have fought harder for a truly innovative and positive form of helth care, but she too would have played politics, and there is really no way of knowing what she would have accomplished on this issue. She would have ran up against the same brick walls. But as far as american exceptionalism, military adventures, and Isr/Pal, she would have been far more agressive than Obama at carrying Israel’s standard, and the military industrial complex, as well as AIPAC would be writhing in orgasmic delight. The middle east is a seething cauldron, and one over-agressive mistep could easily go nuclear. It is my firm belief that Hillary would have been far more apt to light the fuse. But granted, I’m not real sure this empty suit Obama will avoid lighting it. It is a shame that politicians that TRULY DO have America’s best interests in their hearts, such as Kucinich on the left, or Paul on the right, cannot break through the wall of special interests that surround the White House. Clinton, Obama, Bush, Huckabee, Romney, Palin….all representative of the status quo. We are fucked if ANY of these people are PLACED in the Oval Office. There is a reason the players like Kucinich and Paul are not allowed to get anywhere near the White House doors.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/16/labor-holds-emergency-mee_n_394070.html
Labor Holds Emergency Meetings To Discuss Senate Bill, May Formally Oppose
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Posted: 12-16-09 10:46 AM
POA
You sure seem to have completely missed out on what happened here after “Hillary lost.” Most did not jump on the Obama bus. Just take a peek at Taylor’s archives.
Here’s a link to traffic – it’s easy to see the huge drop off – hardly everyone jumping on the Obama wagon.
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/taylormarsh.com?p=&r=
Say’in it just don’t make it so.
Which, I think, is the reason he’s dropping so fast amongst the voters. Those who know they were bamboozled are back in the woodwork. The rest are damned angry at the betrayal of simple democratic and Democratic Party principles.
Now, I really gotta go. Be back to play later.
Faxdinatioon????? WOW!!!
Maybe I oughta proof read this stuff, eh? That was ’sposed to be “fascination”.
POA…be my guest, check the archives and see my opinions of Obama all along.
It’s funny I was a strong Hillary supporter and yes, I know she is an establishment Dem, but I think she is far more progressive domestically, whenever I took an online quiz asking who my values matched with it always turned out to be Kucinich.
GaBuck says:
16 December 2009 at 9:14 am
You don’t need to calm down Taylor.
I’m Irish-Scots, GaBuck, calm is not a natural state.
(It’s why I’m addicted to meditation!)
Lake Lady says:
16 December 2009 at 11:49 am
I agree with you that Hillary is more progressive domestically, too and I am aligned more with Kucinich’s values as well. I always think of myself as a moderate Dem but I am probably more liberal than I think. I sure am dissatisfied with this Congress, that’s for sure. I haven’t quite decided about the President but I think he is capable of more change than he is currently giving us. Maybe our system is so corrupt there’s not much that can be done nowadays – it takes so much money to run for office that one has to become a part of that system. It stinks.
It would be instructive to read Glenn Greenwald today. He claims, convincingly, that this is the health bill Obama wanted all along. He cites Russ Feingold for baldly stating that. Apparently, the idea is to keep the drug and insurance interests supporting with their big bucks dems rather than republicans. All about the money, the power…
Hey Pilgrim. I quoted Greenwald in the post I just put up.
…I think he is capable of more change than he is currently giving us.
Health care was his chance to prove it. So, there is absolutely no evidence of this. None.