We are F*cked.
11 December 2009 6:19 pm by texan4hillary
http://tinyurl.com/ybzwvy4
That sums it up. The WH finally w eighs in the hcare debate- for big pharma. Sen Dorgan wants to kill the phrama drug deal by allowing drugs to be imported. The WH deal bans such importation so if it passed then the deal is broken. Dorgan so far is saying count out his vote to resume even debate until the 70 senators who back this incl sen snowe and mccain- have a vote.
The hcare debate is a sickening thing that I never thought my party would would do ie not regulate drug costs etc.. As huffpo headlines says- The Senate is on Drugs. Americans I wish would get more involved in watching their pols. A sliver of this country is engaged. We need more. How long can WH stall senate business for pharma without this becomming the headline story everywhere? Stupid.
This post was submitted by texan4hillary.
No tags for this post.
You’re title concisely communicates the way I feel on alot of issues.
Thanks for that.
Just heard Barbara Lee say that she supports a public option, any legislation must have it and if it DOESN’T what are we doing this for?
Secondly – just from my point of view, what the hell is the Medicare buy in about. 55 and up are NOT where the bulk of the unisured are.
F*cked indeed texan.
hey kris i was watching ed schultz on hcare and they had a great quote form a liberal talk show host: “the gop is the party of no. the dems are the party of fear. so where do we go?”
robert reich was saying the progressives have to stop the sen bill. they have the power. period. he said ins costs will shoot even higher under the sen plan. rep lee- save us from the senate!
Exactly.
You know I was thinking the other day that after the election in 2008 I would never have guessed I would be so discouraged and flat out pissed one year later. I truly, foolishly as it has turned out, believed that with a Dem Congress and President things would really get done. Instead one of the biggest cluster f*ucks I have ever seen.
Senate bill also says insurance company may not establish “unreasonable” lifetime benefits. LOOPHOLE. Senator Harkin stuttering to explain.
Tex
Um, you’re only P.O.ed now? The Pharma fix was in all the way back in January You do remember the “stakeholders” meeting that B.O. organized way back then right? You do remember single-payer being killed off before it was even allowed to draw a breath? Where was Dorgan then?
Dorgan is playing to the peanut gallery, he is buffing up his Progressive Bone Fides. This temper-tantrum is going absolutely nowhere.
Rahm Emanuel broadcasted the Administration’s game plan far and wide: they will take anything, no matter how hideous, that Congress gives them and declare victory on “health care reform.” From that point on the only real question is how badly the general public was going to get shafted by the special interests of the health care industry. Since far too many Democratic Senators are owned and operated by these special interests the answer to the question of how low will this go was readily apparent.
The central error that was made was not going to reconciliation, not passing go, going directly to reconciliation. By attempting to be ‘bipartisan’ the Donkeys allowed bad actors to take control of the process.
Tex, you are justified in your rage and your frustration but you should not be surprised. Fixing our broken government is not going to be quick nor easy. There is a whole generation of shell-shocked Regan revolution Democratic survivors that need to be put to pasture. The Dean revolution, the mantra of “more and better” Democrats is still only in its infancy. The work has just begun. The next step is the disposal of Blue Dog Democrats in safe districts. We don’t need to get all NY 23rd on this but we need to make clear to our congress critters that we expect Democrats to act like Democrats.
Kris, the loophole is already explained by three words: Senator Harry Reid. Just another spineless day in the office for the old seagull worshiper* from Nevada. Remember no amendment gets into the bill without his say-so.
*Seagull worshiper- a derisive term for Mormons.
The American citizens must realize that they are meaningless to the big money 1% who own America. It makes me sick. It makes me sicker that the slick BO sold it. It makes me dicker still of the novices who put him in control – not just that he was elected – that the novitiates showed him that he could do whatever for a very, very long time before they’d consider holding HIM accountable.
dorgan in huffpo. so how long can wh hold out on this? a day? very damaging to the dem brand . very. the news here isnt the pharma deal. we all knew that. but is it news to average americans? i bet. is it news that sen dorgan is now witholding his vote? you bet.
Tweet this on twitter @GOPleader I boycott conserv contributors RiteAid TysonFoods JackDaniels AmExp Wendys until U get HR676 enacted RT please #progressive #hcr
The pharma deal: we’ll jack up our prices and then offer a 50 percent discount which will amount to nothing saved for elderly and disabled people and we’ll allow you to close the drug benefit coverage gap in 10 years.
Okay – allow me to give an opposite perspective.
My 1st thought is simply – ‘Is it true or not that this bill will make more progress than ever before toward health reform?’ I actually don’t know – but I do know even small steps are better than no steps. It’s a simple principle requiring agonizing patience but it works. You guys would have a better opinion as to its ‘progress’, however.
My 2nd thought is far more important to me [click], personally. According to the good doctor, Howard Dean, this bill could dramatically change my life. I happen to be someone who is *totally* refused any kind of coverage due to multiple health problems and surgical removals. I live on a stubborn precipice and currently have multiple problems, including esophagus blockage which requires tests and treatments I cannot afford – even if I could find a specialist who worked for cash. But according to Dr. Dean, this bill could mean by next June – at 60 yrs. old – I would get complete coverage for about $500 a month. My family would gladly pay that.
For me this is encouraging news.
Just thought I’d share.
Robert Reich turned the comments off on his blog. He used to allow people to post comments on his blog entries.
The Senate bill is a joke. It also would cap your coverage, pmichael, per year.
I have not weighed in on this, written on it, because there is so much up in the air. But it’s looking really bad. I, for one, if the rumors I’m hearing are true, would vote to kill this bill.
Everyone needs to understand that we’re at the point where Dems are circling the wagons to get SOMETHING ANYTHING passed so they can have a “win.” What I’m hearing from Dean right now, in my own interpretation, is close to the man choking on his words as he says them. They’re scared to death to end up with nothing, which isn’t out of the realm of possibility at this point, though it’s still more likely to get SOMETHING ANYTHING.
i agree. the dems are failing us and the people dont deserve mandates for private ins with no pub opt or cost controls on premiums.i pray folks like rep lee and grijalva will kill it if not improved. love how dorgan is playing the game.
I appreciate your “cap” info, Taylor.
But my original question still remains posed:
Is this “SOMETHING ANYTHING” actually ‘Progress’? – even to a small degree? – or is it going backward. (very little chance of the coin landing on its edge
Is it what I’ve heard described as “Further than any one in history” – or is it not? I don’t have the expertise to answer that black/white question. But I’d really like to know.
We don’t know yet, pmichael. I’m listening and emailing with people who are experts in health care, something I am not. But from what I know so far I’m not certain that the affordability will be what you think, with the caps a real problem for you as well. Without the caps, since the insurance cos won’t give an inch, you wouldn’t be able to afford the premiums.
No one has convinced me that where we are right now would be better for Dems than killing the bill at this point. The Rep. are going to run against Dems in 2010 on health care, with the amendments they’re adding put on the bill to make it unworkable, but even a failure so that the people will get furious and take it out on Dems in 2010. I’m not sure people would do that if there wasn’t a bill that sucked.
Mitt Romney is on “Meet the Press” this Sunday. It’s his beginning roll out and should be interesting, as he did health care in MA.
Thanks, Taylor. Have a *great* weekend.
You too, pmichael. I so wanted something to manifest on health care precisely for people like yourself. Once Obama didn’t stand up to lead and we missed August recess, then Palin’s “death panels,” a foreboding set in. It’s unfortunately playing out, as this is going into 2010, a very bad sign.
You do know Taylor that the death panel argument isn’t that far off. I will find the links and post them, but there was a discussion on CNN a few days ago about the amount of money spent on the last year of life for most on Medicare. The discussion was that too much is spent and seniors should be talked to about life choices.
I had a discussion with my 85 year old mother, who had seen it on CNN btw, about how she felt about that. You can imagine her response.
I’ve read the “death panels” argument, seen CNN, as well as talked to nurses about it, but also rationing. It’s bs as far as I’m concerned, so we’ll have to disagree, which is fine. End of life conversations should be had by more families.
I have a living will. I also think quality of life matters more than the number of years, especially if you’re not well. For a country who preens and proselytizes about faith & God, we sure go kicking and screaming to the “afterlife.”
Slippery slope my friend. We will disagree about this.
Personally, that is a conversation I believe belongs between myself and my parents. Not the government requesting or maybe mandating.
Past that, we leave this earth when our higher power requests us to, not some asshole in the government. Although I am quite certain Ms. Pelosi feels she is sufficiently qualified to make these decisions.
People will still have it between family members. Come on, kris. Besides, these decisions are already being made, so to think they’re not is naive, something I know you are not.
As for the “higher power requests us to,” that’s way too pre-ordained for my philosophy. I reject it.
Well Taylor, in the last 4 years my mother has had two strokes. Since 2000 she has had bypass surgery along with two pacemakers. She is diabetic, been in rehab two times for a total of almost a year, and not once has she had an issue with Medicare or her supplemental insurance. In fact Medicare paid for all of her rehabiliation time for both strokes. Not one time has there been a decision made by a doctor, insurance company, emergency room, yada, yada, yada…that would make me think decisions were being made to not provide medical help or coverage to pay her medical bills. Not once has a doctor had a discussion with me about enough being enough. It’s just not been my experience. If others have had them I am more than willing to listen.
My father has had prostate cancer, a kidney removed, has Alzheimers and again not one discussion about end of life issues because of cost.
Reject preordained or not. It doesn’t change my beliefs and we all end up owning our beliefs at the end of the day.
And I will just add this. I am so glad that my mother is still here. Frankly my relationship with her is better than it ever has been. We have an appreciation of each other that we didn’t have before.
If someone, like the HHS, was making decisions about what insurance companies were paying for, what doctors could treat, etc., I would be missing a very special time in my life.
I guess my bottom line is this. The health care debate has been bogus to begin with. If it were a real discussion and real legislation that dealt with cost, tort reform, cost of medications, cost and efficiency of delivery of services, fine. But that is not what it’s turned into and it is going to be pass anything, to pass anything. That is not acceptable to me.
We own our beliefs every day.
Getting more people into the system is not simply a conversation about Medicare, kris. It’s about younger people as well. It’s why it’s never been done and also why the bill we’re looking at right now sucks. It’s why ins. cos have succeeded in getting caps in the Senate bill. Because health care is breaking this country.
I don’t disagree with that Taylor, but come on, now we are talking about extending Medicare to 55 and older when these are not the people who are uninsured or underinsured.
If we want to do something with Medicare extend it to everyone and end the abuse and fraud. It’s a structure already in place that most folks understand.
My largest frustration is that we, sorry not we, they, are making this much more complicated, expensive with layers and layers of commissions, boards, committees, whatever, than there needs to be.
And finally, one more time, it’s why we need a single payer system in this country. Nothing less. I wish there was the courage and will to have a straight conversation in this country, but we won’t in my lifetime.
With that, good night and thanks for the conversation.
BTW – why the hell are you up so late
Our legislators don’t understand health insurance, that much we’ve all seen now. They were under the delusion they could start from scratch on a public option. Now they know they can’t so they’re going home to mama to see if something already running can save them.
The worst leadership fiasco I’ve seen in politics in a very long time, especially since Hillarycare provided a blue print of all the mistakes and where to head. It’s just criminal what Dems allowed to happen.
I’m up late most nights, kris, usually reading & researching, stuff I can’t do during the crazy day. I check in around here to see what’s happening as well, though I don’t always comment, as you know. But read late at night what’s hitting tomorrow, sometimes links that I get when things go live.
kris
It seems to me you’ve got the “end of life” discussions all wrong. The fact that EOL discussions typically lead to costs saving is a coincidental benefit. The real import of EOL discussion is the improvement of life quality for the patient and the patient’s family. You seem to have bought into a “soylent green” notion.
Here’s a link to the Dana Farber that you might want to read and consider. They certainly have enormous experience in the area:
http://www.dana-farber.org/abo/news/press/2009/doctor-patient-conversations-at-end-of-life-associated-with-lower-medical-expenses-study-finds.html
djjl -
My problem is I have gotten to a point that I don’t trust anything being said by any of them. Look at Pelosi’s 180 on a PO, what a surprise huh?
Taylor is right this is a fiasco, the Congress appears not not have a clue and I might add on another issue, they have no clue about economics as well.
So I tend to believe anything these days, because I have NO faith that anything good will come out of this mess.
Are you aware that it was DOCTORS who wanted the “end of life” discussion put in the bill? They wanted it so that doctors who invested their time in discussing this very important issue could be reimbursed – paid for their time.
An end of life discussion is one I personally have seen. My mother was ill with emphysema for many, many years. Lots of hospitalizations, lots of care. There came a time when her pulmonologist informed me and my father that there was nothing more that could be done that would result in any measure of recovery. They told us she was dying and there was zero that could be done to change that. They didn’t tell her until we insisted. She deserved to know she had a finite period of time in which she was lucid and could share anything of import to her with those she loved. She had mending to be done. She deserved that. She was also thankful that she could be at home and receive twice daily hospice care visits.
She was allowed to live her life fully.
djjl -
I am not talking about end of life discussions. I fully agree that everyone needs to fully reflect, think and put into a viable legal document their end of life wishes. My brother had done so prior to his death, my mother has done so and I believe my father has as well. I have too.
I’m referring to the dollar and cents discussion that the last year of life for seniors usually equates to 40% of what Medicare spends on an individual and that needs to change. It only makes sense that expenditures go up. So my question is, as buried in one of these bills, do you want the Sec. of HHS to decide what procedures, surgeries, medications, etc. you can have? Do you want that decision based on dollars?
In all honesty, can you tell me that you are comfortable with a government type deciding these things after watching this fiasco? Tell me who would be qualified in your mind to make these decisions.
kris
I’m not talking about the health care bill – I’m just referencing the reality of what happens.
But, if you think that the insurance companies don’t dictate care and drugs, you are sorely mistaken. You may have read my posts before where I mentioned that I’ve had some unfortunate health issues. I’ve also always had excellent health insurance. With excellent insurance coverage, I’ve always been given the list of doctors I may choose from, the number of visits I may have with a specialist, which procedures they will and won’t cover, and they’ve inserted their recommendation for which medicine I should be prescribed. I’m lucky, my preferred doctors were on the list because my plan is self-insured through the university system and medical school. I have to advocate on my own behalf – like getting the doctor to write a letter to explain why the different drug the insurance wanted substituted would not benefit my health care issue. Please note – we aren’t talking about substituting a generic (always happy with a generic)- we’re talking about the insurance administration suggesting another drug.
So that’s how it is when you’ve got GREAT insurance. My daughter’s health insurance – through her employer – while more expensive than ours – is not so great.
I think that is a bogus issue. But, would you be happy having those same issues determined by the for profit insurance company executives and their minions who want to keep the CEO of say, my daughters insurance company -United Health Care – making over $10,000,000.00 MONTHLY as of 2005:
* United Health Group
CEO: William W McGuire
2005: 124.8 mil
5-year: 342 mil
http://blogs.webmd.com/mad-about-medicine/2007/08/ceo-compensation-who-said-healthcare-is.html
BTW, what is a government type? Is it different than insurance company type? Different than a Gordon Gecko – greed is good – type?
I understand about insurance companies djjl.
I have always had good insurance plans as well. I understand some are better than others. I understand about prescription coverage.
I also understand why 60 + percent of the American public, according to a wide swath of recent polls, oppose current legislation.
Here’s my favorite quote from this week re healthcare. Bob Casey: “Any big agreement is progess, even if we do no know any of the details”. SAY WHAT?
A government type…. you know what I’m talking about. Listen Medicare is going to be insolvent in 2017. The compensation rates are so low doctors in my area can’t afford to take new Medicare patients.
Why not open up the Congressional healthcare plans to all Americans? I know it’s an old argument but if the menu of choices is so good and they are well administered plans that would mean there is an existing structure in place that could be expanded.
I will just leave it at this. To pass anything, just to pass it is ridiculous. We will have a larger mess on our hands than we do now with billions of dollars wasted yet again. In the meantime, Hoyer and friends want to borrow another 1.2 trillion. The title of this diary is 100 percent on the mark.
kris
it seems you’ve bought into the “death panel” bit.
” kris says:
12 December 2009 at 12:29 am
Slippery slope my friend. We will disagree about this.
Personally, that is a conversation I believe belongs between myself and my parents. Not the government requesting or maybe mandating.
Past that, we leave this earth when our higher power requests us to, not some asshole in the government. Although I am quite certain Ms. Pelosi feels she is sufficiently qualified to make these decisions.”
The conversation WAS put into the bill originally at the well meaning request of physicians who recognized the need and the benefits to the PATIENT. IT WAS NOT GOVERNMENT REQUESTING OR DEMANDING IT – it was doctors requesting that it be recognized as important time devoted to patient care and as such reimbursable time spent by the physician.
No, kris, I don’t know what YOU mean by government type and why you apparently feel that “type” is inferior to an insurance company bureaucrat type.
“Any big agreement is progress EVEN IF WE DO NOT KNOW ANY OF THE DETAILS”.
Bob Casey PA-D
bbl
I saw here or somewhere in the last couple of days, where someone was commenting that their mother was upset that she was getting a cost of living adjustment increase on her social security and as a result the Democrats were losing 2 votes – the posters and the mothers.
Now never mind that a cost of living adjustment is to reflect a increase in the cost of living – kind of an inflation adjustment. COLA is not a pay raise for social security.
http://www.socialsecurity.gov/cola/2010/2010faqs.htm#q3
Q. Why is there no COLA for 2010?
A. By law, Social Security and Supplemental Security Income benefits increase automatically each year if there is an increase in the Bureau of Labor Statistics’ Consumer Price Index for Urban Wage Earners and Clerical Workers (CPI-W), from the third quarter of the last year to the corresponding period of the current year. This year there was no increase in the CPI-W from the third quarter of 2008 to the third quarter of 2009.
Ooops, left off the point of my 12:08 post
This health care/death panel, government type argument seems to have the similarity of truth and accuracy be damned.
You still haven’t answered my question djjl. Who would you trust to make decisions, be they coverage, end of life, prescription coverage?
Would you trust Sebelius or future HHS Secs?
God bless you if you know the truth about all of this. You must be the only one. Certainly from Casey’s comments, and others, they don’t.
Maybe you can enlighten them.
The question is bogus kris.
I don’t suggest I know the truth about all of this. But I do know some things that are true and some things that are lies.3
bbl going to a basket ball game.