Dean and Rue the Day.
23 November 2009 6:18 pm by texan4hillary
http://tinyurl.com/y9uoh92
Guv Dean fights back hard on Ratigan and Ed Schultz. He is great. We are in a party war. This bill wont be reform unless reconciliation is used. And recall 56 dems in sen back the po-we cant let 4 stop this.
Sen Whitehouse talked of ending the filibuster abuse or progressive goals will die. So what we must do: progressives must mobilize like never before esp in AR,LA,NB,CT. I see no way forward with reconciliation on at least the po. Its the only way. We must work like hell next week in the fight for our progressive lives.
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Hey t4h. It’s Thanksgiving and Dems still don’t have a firm grip on health care. Reconciliation should have been used before the August recess, so that Obama wouldn’t be talking about jobs & the economy while STILL trying to get health care passed.
More from Sam Stein on Dean.
dean is right of course. diss the po and lose your base and lose big in 2010 and maybe 12. feckless and clueless leaders for sure. afraid to do anything bold. so far. funny a new name mentioend today to replace geithner. poor timmeh. 4 dem sens can do waht they are doing bc obama gave them the power to do so. and until they are reigned in we face a trainwreck. days runnign short. i see this bill going nowhere unless dems do reconciliation very soon. an aide i know in the sen says the same. they have no clue how to please the base with po . very worried. loads of chaos.
I can’t fight for the Senate bill texan. Sorry, but it’s awful.
Wow, strong stuff from Dean (from the Stein link headline)”Dems ‘In Deep Trouble’ On Health Care, The Only Options Are A Bad Bill Or 2010 Losses.” Actually, I wonder if a bad bill won’t also mean 2010 losses.
It will Joyce, particularly when folks figure out Medicare Advantage will be gone and this bill is loaded, loaded with new taxes. At some point, and I believe this country is there right now, people are going to say enough. People forget that not only are there the federal taxes imposed, but then state, local and city.
Now we have discussion of a tax on the “wealthy” to fund this “war of necessity”.
The Dems are killing themselves. It’s sad.
obama hammered. front abc story. obama has hcare ref crisis as libs demand po, conservadems say no, afghan war decision with troop increase liekly-ah but dems demand it be paid for with new taxes, jobs-obama staff freaking over this, then deficit issues and indies. its a perfect storm.
i back the sen bill as written NOW. i prefer the house bill. the stakes now are so high. failure to me means huckabee. that is what keep me working.
http://politicalwire.com/archives/2009/11/23/democrats_will_be_hurt_if_no_health_care_bill_passes.html
Texan it is friggin bad bill.
Here is my short reality —-
We keep expecting these folks to make decent decisions and write good legislation. Our expecatations are NOT well founded. 238 members of the House are millionaires, they have their menu of health care options (the best in the country), they travel the world on paid for junkets. They never work a full day (please don’t argue the few days this year they worked “late”). THEY CANNOT RELATE TO WORKING PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY. Sorry for yelling, but they don’t. They can’t. They don’t know how.
What we should do is demand, demand that they write decent healthcare legislation based on what is right, not on some ridiculous presidential timeline, their own political concerns, or $$$$ kickbacks. This is not THEIR country, it’s ours. It’s not THEIR money paying for every stinking thing, it’s ours.
Demand the best from them. We deserve it and we should expect it.
And the latest Rasumussen poll shows what 36% support healthcare reform? Who’s fault is that….the Presidents and the Congress, Dems and Repubs. Hold them accountable.
kris says:
23 November 2009 at 6:56 pm
You are absolutely correct on this and I couldn’t agree more. I also agree with everything Howard Dean said on the Ratigan show. Having said that, I can see where t4h is coming from. Maybe we can build on it in the future. But no p.o. is not an option, and I hope Bernie Sanders means what he says when he promises to vote no if a p.o. isn’t included. I still think they would get a stronger bill going the reconciliation route.
Thanks lynnette and I understand where texan is coming from also, but here’s the thing. What makes any one of us believe that in the future a bad bill can become a good bill. 2010 the Congress is going to change. 2012 the Congress will change again. Presidential year and at this point who knows what will happen.
Having lived in CA since 1974 my living breathing example of bad legislation having very long term consequences is what the state Legislature does whenever they are in session (2400 pieces of legislation this year, OMG) along with the ridiculous initiative process.
Bad legislation does not improve. Do it right the first time and add to it if necessary. It’s just too much money and too much on the line Lynnette to accept shit.
And as you know lynnette I’m for a single payer system, so clearly I support a PO, but what does that really mean anymore. Can anyone define what they mean by that. They have taken the terms and prostituted it. I bet you half the Congress couldn’t define what PO really means.
Enough of my rant. Gotta run. Check back in later.
kris says:
23 November 2009 at 6:57 pm
And the latest Rasumussen poll shows what 36% support healthcare reform? Who’s fault is that….the Presidents and the Congress, Dems and Repubs. Hold them accountable.
kris, when you consider that 36% ‘opinion’ please don’t forget that particular ‘public’ is being led (by the nose?) by the media. When you’re trying to find ‘fault’ – never forget it is *always* in the best interest of the media to create controversy. Is the MSM biased? HELL Yes. They’re biased toward ‘profit’. And please don’t identify them as “liberally biased” when they almost pee’d their pants with glee when they could expose and take down John Edwards.
Our political arena is more about National Enquirer today than ever before – and that’s why TV and magazines are looking more and more like the Enquirer.
Kris at 6:47: “The Dems are killing themselves. It’s sad.”
I wonder how many of them realize it?
JoyceArnold, I wish we could look into their heads. I have this funny feeling they are concerned 10% with the “Democratic Party” and 90% with “Me” (and ‘my’ future). If a third party was to actually get huge support – these self-interested ‘politicians’ would abandon the party in a heartbeat (see LIEberman).
I’m not trying to find fault pmichael, really I’m not and I absolutely agree with you that the media is self serving. I would never make an argument otherwise. In addition, I understand that the way a question is phrased makes all the difference in the response.
My point is that the Dems have friggin messed this up big time. I would have used another word but I don’t want to be moderated or banned
And I am just flat out sick of it.
Joyce -
They don’t realize it. They are responding to god only knows what right now. I disagree with Howard Dean that if healthcare isn’t passed, I guess this year or early next year, that they are going to loose. My gut feel that although healthcare is important to everyone, when you have an unemployement rate at 17.5 percent, more people are worried about their jobs than healthcare. Understandably so.
I guess it goes back to my point that Congress does not relate to working people. If they did they would understand that putting food on the table is issue number one.
And pmichael I am all for a third party. Get there attention by doing so, but no Liebermans allowed.
kris, the 3rd party this country really needs is on the other side. We need a 3rd party from the religious zealots (like Palin) who are at this very moment ‘testing’ their own Republicans. If I had money – I would contribute toward that concept.
Why?
Because we need to more clearly identify the scum that are attempting to ruin and take over this country (such as their attempts to identify the founding fathers as ‘Christians’) – thereby putting them in a minority ‘box’ that simply can’t do anything more than complain.
kris, I agree that they don’t realize it. Or perhaps, simply believe the “you have no where else to go” line. Which gets us to the third party option, which I, too, support. Actually, I think we need more than a “third.” It would be helpful, and perhaps it’s possible, to get a third party from the “religious zealots” you identify, pmichael. But I would very much like to see a developments on the left.
“We keep expecting these folks to make decent decisions and write good legislation. Our expecatations are NOT well founded. 238 members of the House are millionaires, they have their menu of health care options (the best in the country), they travel the world on paid for junkets. They never work a full day (please don’t argue the few days this year they worked “late”). THEY CANNOT RELATE TO WORKING PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY.”
Couldn’t have said it better mesef!! As long as there is a professional politicol class in this country the BEST we can hope for, apparently, is legeslation that dosen’t absolutely suck. And that’s when the DEMS control BOTH houses AND the Presidency. Face it, we’re doomed.