A CANDID CONVERSATION with JOHN DEAN

10 February 2005 10:06 am by Taylor Marsh

The War Crimes of Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo



“It’s appalling. The torture memos themselves are
breathtaking. First, I can’t believe that lawyers wrote that stuff down. …
The torture memos, the fact that a bunch of lawyers would sit around and try
to figure out how to spin the law. In fact, what’s interesting… during the
Gonzales confirmation hearings is that there wasn’t a soul who defended the
torture memos, either on the committee or Gonzales. Gonzales distanced himself
from them. But you know, it’s interesting, no one has called Bybee, they could,
to say, What the hell were you doing? You slipped through here and we confirmed
you for a federal judgeship. If war crimes aren’t an impeachable offense, I
don’t know what is. We’ve got a federal judge, who experts in international
law tell me, are prima facia evidence of war crimes.”
- John Dean

I remember John Dean from the Watergate hearings.

His courage in speaking truth to power was rewarded with a stint in the Witness
Protection Program.

Making enemies in high places is something Mr. Dean knows a lot about. No doubt
he made a few more with his book “Worse than Watergate,” which continues
to sell well.

So, it was good to hear that he’s going to keep the promise he made to a whole
lot of people: that if Bush-Cheney got another four years he “would not
let up – I would keep focused on them.” Talking about torture
memo author, Jay S. Bybee
, who was confirmed by the Senate and
now is a federal appellate judge on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth
Circuit, is a good place to start. Calling out the efforts of Judge Bybee in concocting the torture memos as a war crime is another.

And just because Mr. Dean is aghast at the lengths lawyers went to “spin
the law,” doesn’t mean he can’t appreciate the deference due a president.
As he said in our interview, only incompetence and a nanny can disqualify a
person from a cabinet position.

John Dean is a man on a mission that isn’t personal, but is political and
down right patriotic.

One of the prescient aspects of Dean’s book is that it nothing less than foreshadows
what was to come as the years of Bush ticked by.



“Well, that was very much in my mind. Anybody who’s
been inside the belly of the beast, so to speak, understands where these things
can go. And secrecy does have consequences and when you have the kind of secrecy
that has become the kind of standard operating procedure for this presidency…
I didn’t know exactly where it’s going to come out and still don’t know where
it’s going to come out. And I trace, for example, a number of potential scandals,
any one of which still may erupt at any time. And things obviously with torture
and prison abuse got even rougher than I could have conceived, but there’s no
question now that they’re worse than Watergate.” - John Dean

I couldn’t resist bringing up Seymour Hersh’s most recent article in the New Yorker,
which talks about Donald Rumsfeld taking the Defense Department into Iran,
and doing so with a cadre of clandestine operatives who are out of reach of
Congressional oversight. If that doesn’t fit into the secrecy file, nothing
does.



“Sy is an old friend. … Sy has remarkably good
sources. Typically his sources are people who are very disgruntled with the
existing policy. So, he knows of what he speaks. … I’d be somewhat surprised
if we weren’t doing something to look at Iran to find out what’s going on there.
Now, the broader question is whether Rumsfeld is indeed trying to run around
congressional oversight … I read in the last 48 hours – I read a number of
Washington based publications – I understand there are oversight committee hearings
on that very issue. … McCain knows how the game is played and is on his case.”
- John Dean

Dean went further and mentioned a reality that most people don’t
consider. Rummy’s ramshackle group of special intelligence officers don’t always
meet Special Ops standards. They’re not in the same kind of physical condition
as the Special Ops guys and they’re “anchors on our operation, and we don’t
want ‘em,” quoting what Dean has heard.

Another “anchor,” this one on our very democracy, is
that the disconnect between reality and the beliefs of W.’s followers remains.
The conversation then turned to the election.


“Bush voters absolutely don’t understand what Bush
is doing. They believe there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq; they
believe there is a connection between al Qaeda and Iraq; they believe that Bush
supports world wide environmental controls. … This is pretty staggering. The
image management I talk about in “Worse than Watergate” is so effective.
That so many voters pay so little attention and say, Well, we just trust him.
… They don’t have a clue what’s going on. And people seem unwilling, not withstanding
the information that is available if you do a little digging, they just go along
with the flow.” - John Dean

And one of the reasons behind this “go with the flow”
mentality is the global war on terror.

That led us to a broader question about detainees, back to Abu
Ghraib and Guantanamo and the flood of cases, one after another, being turned
on their heads by federal judges. The lights are flashing and people are starting
to say this isn’t right.

However, Dean understands why the Bush administration reacted
as they did to 9/11, but he is surprised that “more sober heads didn’t
come in and say, hey, this is the way we’ve been fighting our wars. These treaties
have been in existence for a long time. We’ve got to look and see if 9/11 really
has changed the picture.”

It has and it hasn’t, according to Dean. Sure, “al Qaeda
people and terrorists don’t play by the rules, but that doesn’t mean that the
rules still don’t apply.”

As for the unending global war on terror, is it being used as
an excuse to circumvent international law and to keep us in a perpetual state
of anxiety?


“No question. They’re trying to keep the voter frightened.
They’re using terrorism for political purposes. You know, everybody who I’ve
talked to, whose judgment I trust, are convinced that when Usama bin Laden came
on during the election, he really helped Bush. He hurt Kerry, in a sense. I
think Usama has his dream team in there right now.” - John Dean

And there was no way for Democrats to counter it.

But back to those potential scandals, the ones Dean tracks in
“Worse than Watergate,” which one is the most likely to erupt
in Bush’s second term?

Remember former C.I.A operative Valeria Plame, the wife of former
Ambassador Wilson? Yes, that potential scandal.

Does Dean think U.S. Attorney Peter Fitzgerald will track it to
its bitter end, beyond the newsmen, to find out who’s responsible for the leak?

It’s not going away yet, Dean said.

And we can be thankful that neither is John Dean.

First published in the Studio City Sun

 
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